Old friends from their days working together at WCCO television in Minneapolis, former long-time anchorman Don Shelby, and Director of the Custer episode, Raul Cadena, pose for a photo. Raul also played the cigarette smoking thief in the reenactment at Two Moons monument.
Two local native actors who played roles in the massacre reenactment pose for a photo with Scott. I'm pretty sure it wasn't either of these guys who "killed" me during the battle.
In a "period" looking photo, Sargent John Slatton and Scott pose for photo on their horses.
Ross Mitchell and John Slatton led me and my horse "Trinity" across a ridge at the Little Bighorn battlefield in the late afternoon of a gorgeous late June day.
I'd like to start by saying this episode was the most fun I've had on a
shoot to date. Not only did I get to
participate and get "killed" in the exciting Little Bighorn massacre
reenactment, but I was also allowed to ride over the entire battlefield on
horseback for three hours discussing various tactical maneuvers that likely
happened that day with men who served in our nation's military who knew what
they were talking about. In fact, all of
the cavalry soldiers who appeared in the show are currently enlisted in various
branches of the military or are veterans who served our country. They were all extremely knowledgeable,
skilled soldiers who knew how to ride, as well as helpful and friendly to the
host of the show (me) who didn't have a clue what he was doing most of the
time. It's because of people like these
guys who served and continue to serve in the military with honor and distinction
that allows guys like me to run around playing Indiana Jones. We all have to keep that in mind and be
grateful for the freedom we enjoy. I
certainly am.
One thing became abundantly clear to me during my conversations with the
cavalry guys that was not made clear in the show, and that was there was no
Custer "treasure" in the form of gold and/or silver. The pay wagon was with Reno who pulled back
and wasn't part of the Little Bighorn battle.
Therefore, the only thing that could have been salvaged from the dead
soldiers by the natives was personal items and paper currency. However, the natives considered currency to
be "Picture paper" and thus was meaningless to them. I spoke to some of the native actors in the
reenactment who were direct descendants of those who fought in the battle with
Custer and they said the paper money taken from the dead soldiers, "Was
given to the children who threw it up into the air and watched it blow away in
the wind." Besides, what would the
natives do with paper money? Walk into a
grocery store and spend it? Hardly.
So that begs the question, if there wasn't a Custer treasure, what was
the treasure that Two Moons 'treasure map' reportedly led to? What makes sense to me is there was a lot of
gold miners prospecting in Montana at that time who were frequently moving
across the state. No doubt many of them
were robbed of their gold by natives who at some point, realized it had value
to the White Man. I suspect that is what
comprises Two Moons treasure since it couldn't realistically be anything tied
to Custer. Unfortunately, since the
treasure map was stolen around 1960, we likely will never know what Two Moon's
treasure actually was. As we said in the
show, it was either found half a century ago by whoever stole the map, or it is
still out there.
UPDATE: 12-9-14
Today I received a note from one of our guests on the show, David Meyer,
that he had received a rash of emails from people chastising him for being
involved in a "fake" episode.
It turns out there are non-serious debunkers who consistently take
anything they can from our shows, and apparently this blog, and twist it out of
proportion to create controversy and drive people to their own blogs. I've said it many times before that if
debunkers were really serious about the subject matter that appears on our show,
they'd ask me about it directly instead of creating deliberate fabrications to
drive people to their sites.
The issue appears to be my statement about a pay wagon, possibly filled
with gold and silver, not being at the battle to have been recovered by the
natives. David said people were arguing
that a pay wagon wasn't with Reno or anywhere near the battlefield. I could very well be wrong about Reno having
a pay wagon at all since I was going on what I recalled from my
conversations. I don't remember
exactly. In any case, whether Reno had a
pay wagon or not is secondary to the point that there was no pay wagon with
Custer. Therefore, there couldn't have
been a substantial hoard of gold and silver that could qualify as a
"treasure."
I came to my own conclusion as we were filming there was no significant
treasure beyond personal items, weapons, and paper money which would have been
useless to the natives. There was
nothing preconceived about this treasure before filming the episode as
apparently has been suggested. My
opinions were reached after talking with the cavalry personnel and the
descendants of the Cheyenne who fought in the original battle while I was
there.
Did we play up my involvement in the reenactment to create drama? Of course, but immersing myself into the
action helped me better understand and appreciate what happened that day and
put additional context on the questions we were investigating. Nothing was faked, other than our deaths as
member of the ill-fated members of Custer's troops. My advice to anyone with a question about any
of our episodes is to ask me directly on this blog.
ADDITIONAL UPDATE 12-10-14
I received two emails from people who shared very interesting memories
that are germane to our "Custer Treasure" episode. I have no reason to suspect these people are
not telling the truth. While these
revelations are not 100% conclusive, as far as I'm concerned all my questions
are answered with regard to what the natives did with the personal items and
weapons taken by the women after the battle, and as to what happened to two
Moons treasure. My thanks go out both
people who contacted me for sharing their stories.
"Hello Scott,
I watched your episode last night on the "Custer Blood
Treasure" with great interest. I knew W. P. Moncure very well !!
W.P. Moncure, Walker Peyton Moncure, was my paternal grandmother's
uncle. She raised me from 6 months until I went away to nursing school at 17.
"Moncure" as we called him, was married to Anna Otoupalik in 1903 in
Butte, MT. Her sister, Venus Otoupalik-Nedved, was my grandmother's mother.
They all lived in Butte, MT where my grandmother was born in 1892. She died in
1968 and Moncure died in 1964. He was repairing his roof in Calabasas at age
88, fell of the roof, broke his hip, and died as a result of complications. He
was a very "wiry" little man. And boy, could he tell the stories !!
He was born in 1877 in Maryland and came from a prominent family in Virginia.
In fact, his father was a doctor to General Robert E. Lee.
Moncure lived in Calabasas, CA. We lived in Portland, OR, as I still do.
I am a very young 71 years old. Every year he went to the Yellowstone to stay
the summer until the year before he died.. On his way he would come to our
house and stay 5-7 days with us. Then on his way back to CA he would come to
stay with us again for another week. He always brought me a one pound box of
See's chocolates from CA every year.
He owned the Indian Trading Post in Busby, MT for many years. My
grandfather that raised me worked for him there and was also the Postmaster
there for 15 years on the Northern Cheyenne Reservation. Then my grandparents
went over to the Crow Reservation and were there for 2 years before finally
coming to Portland in 1928. My grandfather was the Postmaster there, and owned
the store there at Crow Agency.
Of course we always knew about the Two Moons Monument that he erected.
He would talk about it at times. He said he erected it for the benefit of the
Cheyenne and that the "treasure" would one day greatly benefit the
future tribe. He and Two Moons WERE good friends. My grandparents knew Two
Moons, also, since they were right there, also. My grandmother was a wonderful
artist and we had the huge oil painting of Two Moons she had painted before he
died. Full headdress and all. We knew what all was contained in the monument.
But he would not tell where the "treasure" was buried. So yes, it was
not a myth !!! It was REAL !!!
I have magazine articles and newspaper articles about it. One very long
news article you should have known about is this. In 1957 Moncure turned over
the care, responsibility, and permanent custody of the monument and all its
contents to the Northern Cheyenne Indian Tribe committee. This group consisted
of 9 members who Moncure helped pick. And shortly after this, the monument was "broken"
into and the manila envelope was gone.
Now, after the tribe had control over the monument, do you really think they were going to leave that map there for some white man to get their hands on? After this Moncure would always say, "No one has to worry about the wrong people getting possession of what belongs to the Indians." The opening that was supposed to take place in 1976, 100 years after Custer's Last Stand", NOT 1986, was just done earlier because of the interest that had developed after Kathryn Wright's article.
Also, Moncure and his wife, Anna, bought 1100 acres of land between 1915
to 1936 in the area and donated all the land to the Cheyenne.
The money paid to the massacred soldiers was not gold and silver coins.
It was in the form of gold and silver treasury notes. Paper ! So all those gold coins in the rusty cans
buried and found by that couple have nothing to do with the "Custer
treasure".
I am going to make copies of the articles and some photos of he and
Anna. I am going to send all of it to you at your company, American
Petrographic Services in St. Paul, MN. I hope you read all the articles and
also take all that I have told you in truth seriously. I have no reasons to
lead you on about this matter. There is no "treasure" to be pursued
and found. You might want to pass this information on to the man in the coin
store and the other young guy on the show before you went to Montana."
Here is the second message that's also listed below:
"I remember years ago, when my grandfather was alive, he spoke
about a time when his grandfather's grandfather was in the Battle of the Little
Big Horn. After the battle, Sitting Bull and his people went north towards
Canada, Crazy Horse and his people went south. This band came to The
Stronghold, located in the Badlands of South Dakota - there Crazy Horse told
his people to gather together all that they had taken from the battle field.
After gathering all the items, he divided the items onto four buffalo hides and
told four of his best warriors to ride in each direction (east, south, west and
north), a day's ride and bury the items. My grandfather was told that there
were numerous items which included coins, rifles, sabers, clothing, buttons and
anything the women had found. This is a story that very few people know about.
Those that did know have since passed on. I consider myself lucky to hear
stories like the ones my grandfather used to tell. I thought this might be of
interest to you after I watched the episode of the battle. I also find your
shows very interesting. Thank you."
