Episode writer Will Yates, poses with the Du Luth Stone on a hot July day.
I really enjoyed this particular episode for a couple of reasons. First, it was fun to bring the story of the mysterious La Verendrye Stone to a wider audience. I wrote about the stone and the possibility of it being another land claim stone placed by the Knights Templar at about the same time as the Kensington Rune Stone in my 2006 book, "The Kensington Rune Stone: Compelling new Evidence" (pages 228-236). One of the reasons it fascinated me so was because early KRS researchers, Hjalmar Holand and Newton H. Winchell, also believed the La Verendrye Stone was likely another runic inscription. They had made plans to travel to Paris to search for the inscribed stone, but as fate would have it, a negative vote by the Museum Committee of the Minnesota Historical Society, by one vote, squashed the funding for the trip and to purchase the Kensington Stone for $5,000. An interesting twist of fate is if the vote had been favorable it almost certainly would have been considered genuine as the negative votes were based on the now proven erroneous opinion of the linguists. Holand eventually did travel to Europe, but was never able to make headway finding the artifact. I guess he and I have that in common...
Of course, the star of this episode is the amazing and absolutely authentic Du Luth Stone that was actually brought to my attention several years ago by local residents who asked me to keep it quiet. Their reasoning was they didn't want the public to know for fear of someone defacing or stealing it. The other reason is the landowners wanted to keep it quiet for both security and privacy reasons. I kept my end of the bargain until a couple of years ago when they allowed me to publish my weathering study in my latest book, "Akhenaten to the Founding Fathers: Mysteries of the Hooked X", (pages 72-79). Note: If anyone is interested in a pdf version of my full report just send me an email and I'll forward it.
Historian Tom Backerud was impressed enough with the inscription and felt it was very important to not just Minnesota history, but North American history. Strangely, the Minnesota Historical Society's current position is they, "don't believe it's real because they don't think he (Du Luth) was in that area." This is truly mind-boggling as it is well documented that he was in the area. Further, the MHS haven't even taken the time to look at the inscribed boulder. And people wonder why I get frustrated with academia and certain institutions. Even the harshest skeptics will find this attitude hard to defend. We're hoping to find a permanent home for the artifact that is very important to the early history of Minnesota. Call me bias, but I think the City of Duluth would be appropriate.
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Love the evidence and ideas brought to the show. It's awesome. I'm interested in the hooked x pdf. I don't know where to look for your email address. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteInteresting show, Scott, but I think you may have gotten the location wrong for where the Verendrye Stone was found. In his 1940 book, Hjalmar R. Holand quoted what Professor Peter Kalm had said about it after receiving an accounting from Verendrye, and the pillars were described as being "erected," not naturally made. Many think the location was near present day Minot.
ReplyDeleteIf you flip the page to 249, you will see that Hjalmar Holand also shows examples of "Tatarian" inscriptions, and they include a hooked X, of all things. I thought you might want to know in case you missed it.
Also in this same book, Holand on page 188 says about the message on the Kensington Runestone, "If this lake with the two skerries could be found, we would have promising corroboration of the truth of the inscription."
Good news, Scott: I believe I have just recently found this lake with the two skerries where the KRS party were camped. Just "by coincidence," it is located near the Chippewa River a day's journey north of Runestone Hill, just as the message on the KRS said. And by even more "coincidence," a Scandinavian medieval battle axe was found on this lake's banks many years ago, 18" down. Die-hard skeptics will be in turmoil over this new corroboration when details are released to the public.
(But you--exercising professional circumspection--have already been provided with all the details via email, including the name of the lake.)
Gunn,
DeleteKalm's account explains that Verendrye's two sons, Chevalier and Louis, were "...at a spot across the present Montana border near the top of one of the limestone columns they found a small recess that appeared to have been cut into the column."
Having been to Writing on Stone Park and seeing hundreds of limestone columns with wind eroded recesses, I don't think they'd have to cut one out, but that's a minor detail. Further, I don't consider Hjalmar Holand's research to be that reliable and it certainly isn't in this case if he thought the pillars were erected by man. They most certainly were not and are 100% natural.
I understand and appreciate that you think you've found the burial place of the "10 men red with blood and death." Over the years, roughly a dozen people have told me they know exactly where the 10 men are and each time there was nothing.
Sorry if I sound a bit jaded, but it's because I am. This time, I'll wait to get excited when a body is found.
Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that I had found a burial place for the ten men. What I'm saying is that I believe I have found the lake with the skerries a day's journey north from Runestone Hill, where I believe the men were camped, according to the message on the KRS. Although I think there is a very good possibility of finding other medieval Scandinavian artifacts on the lake's banks, besides the battle axe already discovered years ago 18" down, we don't even know that any bodies were buried. Their bones may have been eaten by porcupines, for all I know about that.
DeleteOne thing I can tell you, though, Scott, in good cheer, is that I sincerely believe I have found the actual location of the campsite--and the scene of the massacre, based on clues I emailed you about.
I will agree with you that Hjalmar Holand was way off about some things, especially stoneholes and the King Magnus search party. The KRS gives a different reason for the journey. But, in my opinion, he was WAY off by thinking the lake with the skerries was over 80 miles away! He didn't seem to appreciate that the Chippewa River flows not only past Runestone Hill, but also down from the lake with two skerries. He did mention in his book beginning to look between 15 -30 miles north from Runestone Hill for the lake, but he was just a tad too far in his initial assessment.
Folks who have gotten to know me know that I take the KRS message for just what it says, without adding anything if possible. The plain message says they were camped a day's journey north. We must account for walking 4 miles west to the Chippewa River, then paddling upstream for the remainder of the day. I have meticulously mapped out the route using Google-earth, tilted terrain, and I have found a lake that fits the description to a T. This is the lake where an artifact was found on it's bank. The irony is that Holand, according to his own words in his book, had once stood at the the exact place of this artifact's finding...without even realizing that he was standing on the likely spot of the campsite.
One can walk a few hundred yards from the spot and see down and out across the lake. The lake presently has two skerries, one large and one small. If the lake were a few feet deeper 650 years ago, the little rocky island would disappear and the larger island would become two, easily visible from the bank area near where the battle axe was found. There is a "key" I emailed you about which will direct you to within about 5 yards of where the artifact was found...which I think is a likely spot for the campsite to have been, given that the artifact does have some provenance in the way of a notarized statement from the finder.
My humble intention is to get you excited about finding the "mythical" campsite, and the fresh prospects of finding new "old" artifacts with provenance intact...not to get you excited about finding any bodies.
Hi Scott, my earlier response to your comments to me about the Verendrye Stone didn’t post for some reason. I would like to better understand the issue, if you don’t mind indulging me. We have oddly conflicting accounts, and I would like to understand why. Nothing more.
DeleteI have an accounting of what Professor Kalm said about the matter, in Chapter XX, "The Verendrye Stone," in Holand's book "Norse Discoveries & Explorations in America 982-1362," and the Senior Verendrye is supposed to have given the account of finding the stone directly to Professor Kalm, who is quoted on page 246 as saying..."When they came far to the west, where, to the best of their knowledge, no Frenchman, or European, had ever been, they found in one place in the woods, and again on a large plain, great pillars of stone, leaning upon each other These pillars consisted of but one stone each, and the Frenchmen could not but suppose that they had been erected by human hands. Sometimes they have found such stones laid upon one another, and, as it were, formed into a wall....At last they met with a large stone, like a pillar, and in it a smaller stone was fixed, which was covered on both sides with unknown characters." And then quoting on the next page, "Notwithstanding the questions which the French on the South Sea expedition asked the people there, concerning the time and when, and by whom these pillars were erected."
Now the voice of Mr. Holand, "It is possible, however, to greatly limit the field in which the pillar with the inscribed stone was found. Kalm states in the beginning of his account that the Verendrye with whom he talked in 1749 was in personal command of the expedition on which they found the inscribed stone. This excludes the three sons, for they were all in the West in 1749. La Verendrye Sr. must therefore have been the Verendrye with whom Kalm talked. Now we know from the senior La Verendrye's own published account that he did not personally penetrate farther west than the first Mandan village which was located near the present site of Minot, N. D."
So, as I said Scott, we have strangely different accountings on record, so I guess you can see why it looked to me like the Verendrye Stone had probably been found in ND, based on the information I had, which I assumed was correct. I for one will go back to the available information about this subject for further clarity.
I don’t think Holand was purposely mis-quoting Kalm. What is your source for identifying a younger La Verendrye as the stone’s finder, if you don’t mind me asking? I don’t mind getting to the bottom of this, if you don’t. Thanks.
I just want to add that I think you are correct about the French wanting to eliminate earlier evidence of European exploration. Although you and I think somewhat differently about land claims in America during the medieval period of the Kensington Runestone, I agree that the French were very involved with attempting to take up land later, during the 1600's, using watersheds and waterway landmarks.
ReplyDeleteAt one time I lived in Sault Ste. Marie, MI and while studying local history there, I learned that a plaque had been left (buried) on the embankment overlooking where Lake Superior empties into the St. Mary's River (Easterday Hill). I now live in Hennepin County, MN, and I learned through studying local history, again, that Father Hennepin had apparently tried to fool certain people into thinking that he had followed the Mississippi to the Gult...which he hadn't.
So, it's quite plain to see that overseas empires were interested in all sorts of land grab intrigues, some more sinister and deceptive than others, I'm sure. And, I don't think it would be out of place to show that a major land grab was made by Native Americans against other Native Americans in SD, during the early 14th century, by way of the "Crow Creek Massacre."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_Creek_massacre
I'm bringing this up to show that I don't think it was improper for you to talk about the French wiping out evidences of earlier land grab attempts with the Native American woman in the show (as I see some have suggested elsewhere). I believe she is well aware that Native Americans were also involved in land grabs against one another, wherein vast territories were occasionally overrun.
And so it's not a stretch at all to openly and frankly discuss this weakness that is inherent in all mankind...including the possibility that the French purposely removed earlier evidences of Scandinavian travel and/or limited habitation. It may have been ironic for you to be talking to the Native American woman about land grabbing, but not an overreach, in my opinion, especially if one is merely looking for history truth.
(I hope you don't mind me pointing out that scalping and mutilation were common during the time-frame and in the general region of the Kensington Runestone.)
Gunn,
DeleteWhat people here probably haven't thought about is the conversations Juanita and I had that didn't make the final edit and off camera. She's very intelligent and understands the context of the story we were investigating. Everybody knows about the White Man breaking virtually all treaties made with Native Americans. That wasn't what this episode was about and she understood that.
Personally, I think the French were removing the old Templar land claims that were not specific to France to essentially "update" the land claims. The order began there, but it was a multi-international organization and the KRS land claim was specific to those making the claim only by the use of the Hooked X. If at some point they had needed to exercise the KRS claim, they could have shown evidence of the earlier use of the symbol as proof.
However, the need to unearth the KRS claim was unnecessary since the ideological descendants of the Venus Families who founded the Cistercians and Knights Templar; the Freemasons, eventually founded the New Jerusalem we now call the United States. This was the Venus families' plan all along.
Scott, some of what you have said is a bit esoteric to my own belief system, but I agree with you that the French and other Nations, too, probably wouldn't have thought much about simply removing "old" claims and substituting their own. I guess this is why we have the example of the French burying lead plates after conducting impressive ceremonies.
DeleteI hope you don't mind me saying that I don't think the KRS was ever buried as a land claim...mainly because there was only between about 4"-6" of soil covering it when found, and that would only account for a few to several hundred years of natural buildup, but not for being purposely buried. I think the KRS was a simple memorial stone, and not a land claim. I personally think land claims were being handled differently at different times. While the French and others involved themselves with burying plaques to claim land in association with waterways and/or watersheds, I don't think this was the case during the medieval Scandinavian visits.
These earlier land claims look more to me like individual claims--such as west of here in SD, by the Whetstone River. It could be that Runestone Hill was marked for private ownership earlier, too, but it looks more like it was encircled by stoneholes to represent an important landmark, like on a ley-line. I found that if you draw a line on a map between Duluth (end of westward sailing) and this Whetstone River area (where dwindling oceanic waterways converge), Runestone Hill will show up on the line. So, I think Runestone Hill was created as a geographical reference point for helping to know one's way around inland between other waterways.
I think that perhaps the KRS party was looking to claim some land of their own, which may be why they were possibly looking for the source of the Chippewa River. I believe they put the memorial KRS on Runestone Hill, in plain sight, because they figured Scandinavians would be coming back to that spot in the future. Why?
However, this isn't to say that I don't think sacred geometry was used at Runestone Park. Maybe preexisting stonehole sacred geometry is hiding something else at the Park. The stoneholes were put into a certain pattern for some reason. We know the stoneholes weren't made randomly, but for specific reasons.
Scott, the problem I have with the Venus families idea, or the Jesus Bloodline idea (you brought it up), is that Jesus was conceived immaculately, not carnally, and so why would he then become carnal in God's plan? This seems not only illogical, but frankly, also quite blasphemous. For instance, I have a hard time imagining Christian Crusaders fighting to the death with this ideology in mind, rather than the more orthodox way of believing. Why would the majority of "holy warriors" care enough to fight to the death if they weren't in the "secret" bloodline?
Alternatively, that could be like then saying the Leaders were misrepresenting the purpose of the fight to the majority of the warriors, and what kind of spirituality would that be? So, your ideology could be considered by some as a slight to the memories of not only many slain Christian Crusaders, but also to the memories of the ten slain men in the KRS party--if they were in fact not post-Templars believing the way you propose.
Maybe the hooked X as an "a" rune was used by other ordinary Christian rune-masters not having this Venus Family ideology. I'm just saying that, to me, this seems like an extra heavy burden for the KRS to be carrying, since I take its message for just what it says, without adding anything.
But having said this, I think you did a wonderful job--as Hjalmar Holand did before you--of bringing together many local evidences connected with the KRS.
Gunn,
DeleteA few facts about the KRS being buried; the stone was found angled in the ground beneath the Aspen tree roots. On end was about 12" deep and it angled upward to where the other end was exposed at the surface. Second, the KRS was found near the high end of the hill and therefore was in a erosional area, not a depositional or buildup area. It was almost certainly deeper in the ground and was in the process of being exposed after roughly 536 years of erosion.
Line two of the inscription says, "...acquisition business, or taking up land,..."
You and I are will have to respectfully disagree on the immaculate conception stuff; I don't believe in that at all.
I can guarantee you I am not done yet; there is a lot more to this story yet to come.
Thanks for indulging me on these sensitive issues, Scott. Like you, I don't mind respectfully disagreeing about certain elements of the KRS's story, as the best way to move forward with discussions about it.
DeleteYes, we seem to have a more modern, updated version of what the specific purpose of the 1362 medieval journey inland was, more clearly pointing at acquiring or taking up land...subtle words for land-grabbing, I guess unless a valid exchange was made or being considered with a local Native American Nation; I think you pointed this possibility out in your Hooked X book concerning the medieval Scandinavian petroglyph of a drinking horn found along the Whetstone River in nearby South Dakota, within a "cluster" of stoneholes.
Anyway, we know the expedition wasn't a search party--as Hjalmar Holand was so stubborn for. The little plaque erected at Runestone Park in 1948 is still misinforming the public about this, which I think is sad when combined with misinformation about the stonehole rocks there being used for mooring ships! Again, this can be (and is) attributed to Holand.
I'm suggesting that any stoneholes in the vicinity of Runestone Hill may have been associated with either an earlier land claim, or as I mentioned before, possibly a "highlighted" landmark for knowing one's whereabouts. Personally, I don't see anything within the message of the KRS that suggests a land claim in the proportions you hypothesize about...which is the main reason I question whether the stone was ever even buried at all, which to me may be going beyond the simplest message of the runestone. (The slight conflict here is because I'm a KRS "message purist".)
I've recently done some research which indicates that the marker on the slope of Runestone Hill is incorrectly placed, too, which doesn't surprise me in the least. Every indication is that the runestone was found up nearer to where the flag pole display used to be, on top of the hill. Even Holand shows the top of the hill as the spot in an illustration in one of his books. So, I don't think it was in as much of an erosional area being on top of the knoll as on the side. But what you are saying about soil build-up is certainly valid and I don't question that, as a pond's outer edges would produce much more depth of soil build-up over time than, say, a rocky, windswept ridge.
I can appreciate this geological study of soil build-up. I'm mostly very interested in depth of soil build-up equating back to the mid-Fourteenth Century, in relation to specific locations where medieval iron artifacts may be found. I sincerely believe that it's only a matter of time before corroborating evidences with provenance intact are found that will positively agree with the message of the KRS, thereby shutting up the distracting (and even hindering) hidebound skeptics.
Which reminds me, I wanted to say that I hope AU is scheduled for another run, for a 4th season. If it is, I hope you will return "to your roots" here in Minnesota to become involved with locating new artifacts. They're right under the soil, waiting to be found here in MN and SD as much as they were waiting under the soil at Meadows Cove. The only difference is a few hundred years. Vinland sprang up, and then men came inland, as you and I are both privileged to know. Happy new year!
I'll say one thing for sure. This story narrative is getting more intense by the day (show). I always felt the story of "we just want the beaver pelts" was a stretch but then I was just a kid when I lived in Ontario. Just outside of Toronto. But then it doesn't help to tell your 8th grade teacher.........
ReplyDeleteget show -- and so much more homework.
I posted on google + when you get time get back with me
ReplyDeleteGary,
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I rarely go to my Google plus account. I apologize. I manage this blog pretty closely, so you might want to post here. If it's something you want to keep private, hit my email: swolter@amengtest.com
Scott:
ReplyDeleteI'm a fan of the show, and as such I talk to other fans of the show. I would like to know directly from you....should we, the public, be watching this show for the purposes of entertainment, or should we be viewing the show as an educational tool? I've had some discussion with people who view this series as a documentary series. These people accept what you present as "truth" and "fact". Others I talk to see the show strictly as entertainment thinking that you present more of a "what if" viewpoint. Please instruct me as to how I should be viewing your show. Thanks.
Darren T.
Darren,
DeleteI would hope you view the show both ways. Television is entertainment by its very nature, but our show is definitely an educational tool. The investigations we do are real, but limited to a finite amount of time by necessity. However, much of the subject matter are things I've been researching for many years and have a lot of knowledge in. That said, it’s a 44-minute show and we can only delve so deep into something before we run out of time or lose our audience. Losing the audience is a big no-no.
It's a constant balancing act between entertainment and trying to do a good, hard scientific investigation and reaching a conclusion if we can. People get disappointed when we don’t “find something” every show. Reality doesn’t work that way unfortunately.
Hi Scott
ReplyDeleteAnother interesting episode. I have a bunch of questions but in the interest of brevity, I will limit to just a few.
1) If indeed the stone was a land claim, I would suspect that the stone would be sizeable, as is the Du Luth stone. If so, why would La Verendrye or his sons lug around such a large, heavy stone across North America only to send back to the French Count? Why not document the location and dump it in the nearest deep body of water, or bury it? Was it to serve as evidence to the Count that there were prior land claims, or some other reason? I think it's very likely there are many older land claims, ones that pre-date the French, English, or Spanish. To ignore or not acknowledge that possibility only perpetuates misinformation and misunderstandings of American history. Just makes me wonder if these old land claims are closer to home then we think.
2) What gives the pillars in Alberta their unique shape? I believe you mentioned wind erosion on the show but is it solely the result of wind? And what makes that area so unique to house such pillars?
Thanks,
Sara
Sara,
ReplyDeleteThe La Verendrye Stone was not large. It was described as "...was about a foot of French measure in length, and between four to five inches broad, they broke loose..." Why the sons brought it back to their father who then sent it off to France is unknown. They obviously had orders to do so and there could be a lot of reasons why. I'm sure there are more out there, in fact, I'm certain of it that haven't been found yet.
The unique shape of the pillars is a combination of geology, a harder rock cap at the top with softer, faster eroding rock below, along with both water and wind that eroded the formation to create the fantastic stone pillars along the Milk River.
IN MY OPPINON OUR FOUNDER OF THIS COUNTY WHERE KILLER'S AND THEIFS. WHY WOULDN'T THEY COVER UP OR HIDE MARKERS TO PUT THERE OWN IN THAT PLACE. THEY KILLED AND PUSHED THE INDIANS OUT INSTEAD OF THE LAND OF THE PROUD IT SHOULD SAY THE LAND OF THE EMBARISED. I MARRIED A MEXICAN INDIAN THEY WERE INDIANS PUSHED SOUTH I HAVE TWO BOY'S THIS IS HOW I TAKE STOELEN AMERICAN INDIAN SOIL AND RETURN IT TO THEM. ( I FOUND A PART OF A LAST NAME ON A CLIFF AND MABE THE REST OF THE NAME CAN BE FOUND I SENT A MESSAGE TO SCOTT BUT NO REPLY YET) I HAVE MANY LOCATIONS THAT WHITE MAN HAS NEVER SEEN I WAS GOING TO WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THE PLACES AND THE UNHEARD OF INDIANS THAT LIVED THERE . AND THEN TAKE PEOPLE HIKING TO THESE AREAS THAT ARE REAL THAT WOULD BE IN THE BOOK. FOR A FEE .
ReplyDeleteGary,
ReplyDeleteNative Americans have plenty to be upset about; there's no question about that. This episode was not about that story, but it's a story worthy of telling.
I don't recall receiving your message, but I can't get to all the messages I receive even though I try to. The book idea sounds like a good one and I encourage you to do so. I wish you luck on your endeavor Gary.
hello Scott I found a name in NC. about 30 min. drive from the Tenn. line 19E it is the last part of a name it is from a real engraver what is there is perfect and there is a small stream not big enough to move this rock that is broke off very far unless some one moved it after it fall it should be there unless it was defaced for the same reason but I didn't see any tool marks were it was broke intentionally maybe civil war or earlier. It would be worth adding in the history book the location of the rest of the name may be right there but that's up to you to move forward
ReplyDeleteGary here the letters I think was hons does that sound like the last name of anyone important.
ReplyDeleteHi Scott,
ReplyDeleteI just finished watching this episode again. I find I always miss some of the content the first time around. Was that the Cross of Lorraine on the chair in St. Sulpice? I might add that it's from your series that I learned about the CoL. Evidence that your show is more than just entertaining.
On another topic, in your professional opinion what do you think it will take for our educational system to catch up with modern theories? I am an advocate of challenging the status quo, regardless of the discipline. Our educational system is notorious for being slow to move. If anything I hope your show continues to reach more of our youth because it will be them who rewrite American history.
P.S. Do we have a season 4 to look forward to?
Good eye Sara; it most certainly was a CoL and was edited there for people like you to hopefully notice. St. Sulpice has a lot more interesting symbolism that you'll learn about in the two season-ending episodes coming up in a few weeks; stay tuned.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually optimistic that our educational system will begin to implement changes fairly rapidly. First, it has to be asked for and I think the tide is turning. With the advent of the Internet, smart phones, and instant communication, the snail's pace rate of change and control of knowledge by academia is now a thing of the past.
It was for these reasons I gave up working with the older, close-minded academics and focused my attention on young people. Their minds are open, active, and seem to be a lot smarter than I was at that age. Many people I talk to are pessimistic about the future. Whereas I feel just the opposite. I have many young people engage me here on the blog, email, on Twitter (if the personal profile photos are to trusted), and in person. For these reasons I'm very optimistic for the future that they will do a better job than we did.
Last week I watched "The Holy Grail in America" for the first time. I was fascinated by the "blood-line" story line (this coming from a non-practicing Catholic). I was only superficially aware of this "other" version. I loaned it to a friend who enjoys American history of any period and will certainly appreciate this alternate version of the Holy Grail.
DeleteOn a similar note, fast forward a week. I'm watching an episode of my favorite 80's TV show and what do I see not once but perhaps two times? The CoL. The show was "Magnum PI". What's up with that??? I'm sure there is something online about this but thought it was interesting enough to share.
Hope you come out with another Templar/Blood Line show for those of us willing to entertain another side of the Holy Grail. There are more of us out there than most will admit.
Sara,
DeleteWhere was the CoL in the Magnum show?
If you're looking for good Templar/bloodline/Venus Families stuff, it won't get any better than tonight and next week's two-part episodes.
Really good stuff.
It was on a woman's pendant and on a poster or tattoo sheet. Not certain but I also think it was also on Magnum's ring (you'll see it while he is taking picture). All occur very early in the episode, Memories are Forever, part 1.
DeleteScott, you may or may not want to make this exchange public.
ReplyDeleteI had hoped things would work out, but I feel boundaries are being
disrespected. I did a posting up at Jason's site. I'm the person
who asked you about a future political career and campaign. You
gave me an honest answer last February. Here is a posting I did. It
may be short lived.YOU CLEARLY ARE NOT A POLITICAL CANDIDATE.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to wonder if part of his concern might be that perhaps his conferring professors may not be aware of this matter, and if not, may be made aware during "... being questioned about their kind gesture ...." and rescind his Coffee Cup Masters.
Reply
A friend of the Court of Public Opinion01/01/2015 4:35pm
Rev Phil is pithy.
"You are unalterably convince that Scott Wolter is a scoundrel, no matter anything anyone else says or provides …"
Right now y'all are treating Scott Wolter like as if he wants to run for
public office. If he were less of a public figure and more of a private
citizen, this amateur sleuthing would be intrusive and invasive, let
alone the gossipy and snarky comments. The last few postings on this thread deal with a paper chase concerning court records inside
the state of Minnesota. When both men listened to the ruling by the judge, they were private citizens. The judge had a difficult decision call. He had to give a ruling and he did. This borders on the scrutiny a candidate for the U.S Senate recieves. This blog is not the Chicago Tribune, the New York Times or the Washington Post and we are not cub reporters. This is getting obsessive. Like as if its
Arthur Miller's play, THE CRUCIBLE and the year is A.D 1692!
Reply
Dan12/27/2014 2:50pm
I'm pretty sure Wolter is moderating comments in that topic.
I tried to post something fairly dry about the objective fairly universal scientific view of Bat Creek Stone as a fraud and it hasn't seen the light of day on Wolter's blog.
First, I only do not post blatant, inappropriate advertisements and overly vulgar posts. Everything else gets posted. I don't recall a post at all like this person is referring to. Further, there is no "science" to refute the authenticity of the Bat Creek Stone. The only fraud here is wishful statements like this one by these so-called scientists.
ReplyDeleteWhat's enlightening about this exchange is it contains information I shared with Jason privately when he reached out to me, and yet, apparently he felt compelled to publish parts of our correspondence (likely out of context) on his blog. He has now removed all doubt I might have had that he cannot be trusted. I find it truly bizarre that skeptics and academics like Jason think they can "win" by trying to undermine me personally.
Keep at it Jason and his followers; the harder you try the farther behind you get.
Didnt know how far you chased back W.P. Moncure, but I looked at some and the name goes back to the Ford family,, funny thing was that the last Unearthed episode I watched had Jessee James and possible Ford family connection..
DeleteLove the show!! TY
It's amazing how many interesting connections show up when you dig into people's backgrounds. It's a lot of fun too!
DeleteGlad you're enjoying the show.
Scott --- From what I can see, "Dan" has a post in
ReplyDeletethe thread with 316+ posts. I lurked in today. Earlier.
The post by "A Friend of the Court of Public Opinion"
is not there now. It may have been deleated. I see
several very long & tiresome exchanges where we
see Rev. Phil Gotsch being very patient as he tries
to explain the "ins" and "outs" of agates to folks who
did take Earth Science in high school. Its gone, if it
was there. The lines above the post by our "amicus
curia" are from the post that is above the one "Dan"
the lawyer did, he has a service that keeps him
up to date. Bryant Lister even added to opines
in an exchange with "EP" which gives you a hint.
All can proverbially say "birds of a feather" now.
I think Joan Pope's amateur archaeology trumps
the conceited "pros" in the field often. Lets tie in the
Vineyard's NO MANs LAND to the Roman arches
of the Newport Tower or even the stone in the bay
near the town of Kingstown RI! I liked your video of
the Powerpoint presentation. You gave the people
of the town good advice! I think the Americas
were less isolated. The 1692 date & the Arthur Miller
play brings up old Salem. Or even Sen. Joe McCarthy
from Wisconsin who got IKE upset. Our Amicus Curia
was trying to work in a tangential reference to Cotton
Mather in terms of a paper chase a "certain" some-
body is evidently on. This is around the "cub
reporter" quip. I sincerely wish they'd back off.
The hint was the sly reference to the type of
muckraking mudslinging and gossipy lies
that often is thought to be cutting edge in
big political campaigns that we all do
sometimes see at times that approaches
the intensity of S.C's primaries during a
POTUS election year. I'd hate to ask if our
leftwing "amicus curia" feels like a poor Trotsky~ite
in the midst of a nest of hammer & tong Stalinoids!!
If we be talkin' the POLITICAL fringe, sometimes
the Left sounds like the Right or we see people
infiltrating the rivals out there. Lets all keep
this Centrist in a Jesse Ventura or Bill Clinton
or urbane Mitt Romney manner. Hyperbole
destabilizes accuracy. Witch Hunting gets
obnoxious. I am saying I really do admire
JOAN POPE & her ample supply of TRUE GRIT.
I'm not really sure what to make of this post except that it appears to refer to comments on a different blog. Let's try to keep comments germane to discussions here for the simple reason that it's easier to track.
DeleteHey Scott, I just wanted to let you know how much I loved the show! I've been a regular reader of Ancient American magazine and the theories in it and wanted to know if there will be other subjects from it on the show? It would be awesome to see one of the magazine's contributors, like its editor Frank Joseph make an appearance and go investigating with you.
ReplyDeleteScott,
ReplyDeleteThis storyline is one of your best that you've put together. Another tid bit I learned about from a book Im reading is that Du luth trapping party helped rescue Father Hennipin from native captivity! MN is an awesome place for American history. I'd like to see the stone from Du luth at some point but close by where it is so you can have a sence of importance of location and placement.
A question I was thinking about too was did the spanish lay any land claims out for there lands in the west?
Erik A. of St. Cloud
Erik,
DeleteI was aware of Du Luth rescuing Father Hennepin, but we didn't include it because of time constants. As far as the Spanish putting down land claims, I'm really not sure about that. They certainly made claim to lands in what is now the southern U.S., but I don't know a lot about their methodology. We know they penetrated far into North America and documented the explorations, but I don't know if they put land claims on/in the ground.
If you haven't already read it, the book I'm on is It happened in Minnesota by Darrell Ehrlick. Stay warm in this polar vortex we're in. Once spring comes I'm going to recheck those stone holes I found on the Mississippi by St. Cloud
DeleteJoe,
ReplyDeleteYou probably noticed the magazine's publisher, Wayne May, on last night's show? Unfortunately, you won't be seeing Frank Joseph as a guest on America Unearthed anytime soon.
Scott Gary here again just watched oak island again can you get a hold of these guys and get them to contact me 3 days is all it would take to see the bottom of that hole and the answer to finding what's at the bottom is simple geeesss
ReplyDeleteGary,
ReplyDeleteI am not in contact with the Oak Island guys. My advice to anyone is to steer clear of the Money Pit. It sucks people in and they never get out with anything of value; tangible or otherwise.
That's a shame. I remember seeing you both at a conference one time and saw that you both were friendly with each other. After reading an article he did on the hooked x I thought it would be great guest especially with his knowledge on these subjects. Either way keep up the good work Scott!
ReplyDeleteJoe - you are aware that Frank Josephs aka Frank Collins, is a convicted pedophiliac who used to be the leader of the American Nazi Party until they cut ties with him after he was convicted.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Collin
I really do not think having a Nazi Pedophiliac on the show would be a good idea.
Scott, I have two questions that I ask with the greatest respect and genuine curiosity.
ReplyDeleteFirst- If the KRS was a land claim and the men who are mentioned died of disease, as was mentioned as a possibility, why was there no great outbreak of disease among the Natives of the area? The same question applies to the Mi'Kmaq, from whom I am descended, when Sinclair arrived. After the "official" contact with Columbus, disease ran rampant across both continents and the Caribbean.
Second - How far does the "conspiracy" go? Is it only limited to historical academia or does it branch into other areas of research, such as medicine?
Your respectfully
Tia MacCormack
Respectfully, I will venture to say that the men did not die of disease. First of all, the disease we're talking about hit southern Europe in 1347 and progressed to northern Scandinavia and Iceland around 1350. By 1362, the date on the KRS, the plague wasn't anywhere near what would become Kensington, MN.
DeleteAlso, the men were camped together a day's travel north of Runestone Hill and separated into two groups of ten, one to stay at the camp and the other to go fishing, apparently for the day. How is it that one entire group all died and the other entire group all lived? Political correctness run amok will not allow disease to work this fast on one group, without touching the other. Sorry.
Furthermore, we have the account of plentiful blood and mutilation, including scalping, in the same region and in the same time-frame (by way of the "Crow Creek Massacre"), so that in my opinion, disease is out of the question...I don't buy it for one second! :)
The problem I have with the land claim idea is that, as far as I know, a Scandinavian runestone has never been used as a land claim. I see a definite connection between runestones and hooked x's and stoneholes here in America (KRS and Maine Runestones), but I fail to find a runestone used as a land claim, either in Northern Europe or in medieval America. Once again, I'm a KRS message purist, so I don't buy the land claim idea for one second, either! (lol)
Gunn,
DeleteYou have willfully chosen to ignore the clear and direct language on lines two and three of the inscription, "...on this acquisition business, or taking up land far to the west of Vinland."
As for disease in the 1300's, the only evidence I have to support my claim is an oral story told directly to me by an Ojibwa story-keeper who said, "We know all about your people who were in the 1300's." I then asked her how she knew that? She then said, "Because half of our people died when they brought the Plague."
With all due respect Gunn, I trust her words more than I do your religiously driven beliefs and speculation about the KRS.
Hello, this is Tia MacCormack again.
DeleteGunn, I understand your point, and I was not trying to be PC about it. I think it would be entirely possible that the Scandinavians showed up and the Native peoples said, "Sorry, this is our home" and butchered them. The surveys done up the Mississippi valley by de Soto indicate a heavily populated area, but when LaSalle went down the other way, some hundred odd years later, I believe he found only five settlements of any size. Hence my question about disease. I don't know of any outbreak on the Eastern Coast before 1500.
Respectfully
Tia
Tia,
DeleteI think I answered your first question about disease in my response to Gunn. The other thing I would say is if the KRS inscription is taken into account, there's the evidence disease was brought here by circa 1300's era Europeans right there.
As far as a conspiracy goes, that's harder to pin down. I've always believed the officials in Washington hired John Wesley Powell to make sure no older land claims became public to complicate the whole "Myth of Columbus" piece of the Manifest Destiny thing. No one was here before Chris, so it's our sovereign right to take this land. When the KRS came along, it was much easier to make it go away than have to mess with the politics of an older land claim. Way too messy and remember, prior to the end of WW2 the U.S. was not yet a world Super Power, so they didn't want to make waves if they didn't have to.
Scott, I don't disagree with you that the KRS party was involved with attempting to take up land. I am not willfully ignoring the message on the KRS. Where we differ is in the interpretation of what taking up or acquiring land means. I think it means individual groups of Scandinavians taking up land, such as seems to be the manner of attempting to take up land farther west, along the Whetstone River in SD, while you prefer to think it means taking up entire watersheds. I touched on this before when discussing the difference between Scandinavian and French land grabbing.
ReplyDeleteI'll admit that I don't trust oral history passed down from 1362 to the present, especially if it doesn't make a lick of sense. My speculations about the KRS are not religiously driven, but yours seems to be. I am a KRS message purist, which means that I don't see either disease or large land claims or religious dogma stretching back to Egypt. Sorry, but I think you have misjudged me and my intentions.
In my view, Holand jinxed himself by thinking stoneholes were for mooring ships, and by thinking the KRS party came down from the north as a King Magnus search party. Obviously, he added to the message of the KRS, and Runestone Park still suffers today because of his folly. Although you have done a good job of bringing many associated artifacts to the public's attention via your Hooked X book, I personally think you are jinxing yourself by adding to the message of the KRS: huge land claim, disease, openly blasphemous religious dogma...and you attributed that "faith" to the KRS party.
I've tried my best to be friendly and civil and somewhat humorous and still get my ideas across of what I consider to be accurate and inaccurate information about the KRS. Even though we both believe in the authenticity of the KRS, we are obviously miles apart on some details. Surely nothing to get bent out of shape about, though.
I still hope you have a 4th season. I can easily separate my emotions from my message, and I would hope that you can, too. After all, this isn't a skeptic's blog. In all seriousness (this time), I am interested in searching for history truth in the message of the KRS, without adding to it. If I'm guilty of something, that's what motivates me: the simple truth, without baggage.
That's how I recently found out where the campsite was by the lake with 2 skerries, a day's journey north of Runestone Hill...just as the simple message said. To me, proof enough is the medieval battle axe found on the bank of the lake back in 1894, a foot and a half underground. Scott, I've never known you to be a skeptic. This is it, man.... Sorry you aren't more excited about a simple and truthful KRS message, as I see it, but we can continue to respectfully disagree about these things if you want to.
Hello, this is Tia again.
DeleteI was wondering if there had been any archeological work done in or around the Kensington area that had found any skeletal remains or artifacts. Would the remaining men have stopped to bury their dead? Bodies left to rot would not only be a great insult to the Natives, but they would have handled them to bury, or desiccate.
Gunn, are there any published records of the discovery of the battle axe? I find this topic fascinating.
Scott, I respectfully must disagree with your disease theory. I admire the Elders and the History Keepers, but "half of us" did not die in 1300. We died by the village, by the valley and the mountain full, after the diseases started up the Mississippi, along our trade routes, after de Soto's invasion. I believe the figure is closer to 90%. Plymouth was decided upon for settlement because it had already cleared fields, ready for planting, and all the original inhabitants had died or moved on. The white settlers, (also part of my heritage) actually used grave goods they found in Native graves, such as bowls, seed, etc.
I heard a story from an Elder, who told us that when white people came around asking about our history, legends, etc, his Elders refused to reveal our traditions. He and two of his friends were asked, when they were children, and offered them some money. He laughed and laughed as he told us the nonsense he and his friends made up and it was all written down very seriously, in a little black notebook.
Yours respectfully
Tia MacCormack
Scott - you are one intelligent, fine looking man. Your wife is a lucky lady...and I suspect you are a lucky man. I genuinely enjoy your show and the educational value it brings to folks my age and our youth. It's one of only two shows I don't miss. Your charm and good looks are an added bonus.
ReplyDeleteRemember, behind every great man is an even greater woman. History proves that.
I suspect you may not post this but that's okay because it wasn’t intended for the public.
P.S. Don't worry....I'm no crazy person. Just feeling generous enough to send a genuine compliment.
Looking forward to tomorrow's episode!
Super Mom,
DeleteYou are right on both accounts; I am very lucky in many ways and the old adage about having a great woman behind me is absolutely true. There is no reason not to post your kind compliments as it provides balance to the ones that get a little nasty.
Thank you for the kind words which I will pass along to Janet. Tonight's episode is a really good one and if you have friends who are Freemasons, tell them to tune in!
Hi Tia, I don't think Scott will mind if I attempt to answer your questions.
ReplyDeleteNot much besides the runestone was discovered on Runestone Hill, as far as I know. I read of a whetstone being found beneath it, and I think Olof Ohman conducted a "dig" at the discovery spot, without finding anything else. I found a strange iron object that was exposed in a hole after a storm uprooted a nearby tree. (You can read about it at my website by clicking on my name, and you can find my email address, also.)
Any remains of the ten men "red with blood and dead" wouldn't be found at Runestone Hill, but rather a day's journey north. I would like to think the men were buried, but who knows? Maybe their remains were placed in water. Maybe the ten survivors got out of there quickly and didn't do anything with the bodies of their comrades. It's all a guess at this point.
The exact finding spot of the medieval Scandinavian battle axe is known by only a few people, as I've tried to be careful in revealing details about it. I told Scott about it and only a few others whom I trust not to publicly disclose too much information about it, yet. The lake with the skerries is a very real lake, and it can be found an actual day's journey from Runestone Hill. The message on the KRS is true, absolutely true. The battle axe's finder's widow made a trip to town to sign an affidavit, under oath in 1928 I believe, which gives it some provenance...admittedly not the kind archaeologists demand, but worthwhile nonetheless.
Tia, there is a key that unlocks the secrets of this very real lake. The key is specific information found in an obscure passage in an old book, which can pinpoint with accuracy precisely where the artifact was found within about 5 yards. I believe this exact finding spot of the artifact can help to identify not only where the campsite on the lake was located, but also where the attending massacre occurred, since they may have been on the same spot.
I expect that other artifacts may be found on this site on the bank overlooking the lake I've identified as being the lake talked about in the message of the KRS. I've already discovered, myself, that the message is true, but now my task will be to convince others, but without too easily giving away the exact location. For now, I have frozen grounds in my favor as I'm attempting to get permissions from landowners to check things out.
I recently bought a metal detector that can detect deep iron objects, so I would like to locate any buried objects, mark the spots, and try to interest a professional team to perform a proper archaeological dig. This will probably be the difficult hurdle to overcome. I wish I could interest the MN State Archaeologist in this. I contacted him and didn't get a response, but then his official position is that no Europeans were in this region before the French came in the 1600's. Anyway, I'm hoping I can find professionals interested in helping me, if permissions can be received from respective property owners, etc.
Since becoming interested in this subject several years ago--since reading Scott's Hooked X book, I've always felt that it is only a matter of time before additional medieval objects are discovered underground here in MN and SD, with provenance intact...and now I'm convinced that a perfect place to look has been identified. The question is, who will take the simple message of the Kensington Runestone serious, without adding to it, and then want to help prove the stone's message?
Tia,
ReplyDeleteArchaeologist, Christina Harrison conducted a phase 2 dig near the discovery site and found nothing related to the KRS. However, because the stone was carved and buried where the triangulation of the stone holes required, I'm not at all surprised nothing was found. I don't believe the inscription was carved, or the campsite was anywhere near the final burial position. In fact, it was likely carved days or weeks prior to when it was placed in the ground. I suspect it was placed during a ritual involving some significant astronomical event.
Keep in mind the possibility the reference to "Ten men red with blood and death" could also be an allegory symbolic of something else entirely. Since we know there are definitely hidden codes and symbolism already embedded within the inscription, we have to leave open that possibility here too.
Many scholar's scoff at the idea of diseases being passed along to native populations by pre-Columbian European (and elsewhere) explorers. I'll put my money of the Native American oral stories over the scholar's "opinions" every time.
Hello Scott,
ReplyDeleteThis is Anthony. I noticed the "AVM" in the St. Sulpice church you visited in France. The same one from the Alamo. I've seen this symbol many times over the years, and is very similar to the symbolism to the letterhead of the last Russian Czar. When I find the photo, I'll email it to you. Does the "AVM" have anything to do with the land claim removals? I believe you're spot on with your theory.
Hello, this is Tia again.
ReplyDeleteGunn, thank you for your very informative answers about what has been found and the ongoing research you are doing. I agree that the area should be kept secret until proper excavation can be done, and I wish you every success in getting people interested and involved. Don't get discouraged, sometimes it takes decades to prove a theory. I find it fascinating that Scandinavians would have made it so far into the interior of the continent at that time. I admit, my first question was, "Did they take a wrong turn somewhere?"
Scott, I don't dispute that pre-Columbian contact brought disease. For example, the Beothuk in Newfoundland, those guys who kicked the Vikings out, developed several interesting customs after that conflict. Of all the Maritime people, they never made alliances or treaties with any of the Europeans who came later. They avoided them as much as possible. Also, there were reports by Beothuk Natives who had been captured by Eurpoeans that they could not go back to their villages or they would be killed outright. That would suggest that the Beothuk were taking no chances on another round of contamination.
Unfortunately, we lost so much of our oral history, during the plagues, the missionaries and the resettlements. People now forget just how hard it was to be Native in the generations before this one. Don't get me wrong, it's still hard. But the prejudice was so strong that many Natives who could pass for French or Spanish did so and moved into white culture. We have become a non-confrontational people in many respects and will tell folks what they want to hear.
Also, can you enlighten me on what "Ten men red with blood and death" could possibly mean besides the obvious? Did they sacrifice someone to make their claim good? What kind of allegory? And is there a way to tell what astronomical event could have been related to the laying of the stone?
Again, I ask these question with genuine curiosity and respect. I would really like to know more about this fascinating story.
Thank you
Tia MacCormack
Anthony,
ReplyDeleteIn a roundabout way the "AVM" symbol is related to the Templar Land Claims here in North America. However, I wait until the final three shows of the season air before discussing in detail.
The final two episodes especially touch on aspects of this question. Stay tuned.
Hi Tia, yes, it would seem that early Scandinavians made a wrong turn somewhere at first glance, but they actually knew exactly where they were, even far inland in "medieval America." They were water people, waterway people, explorers of vague, uncertain waterways. What's just ahead?
ReplyDeleteForget Runestone Park and the KRS for a moment and you will see something of extreme importance farther west, just across the MN border, in SD: a river with multiple clusters of stoneholes, with accompanying medieval Scandinavian petroglyphs. Scott showed some of this significance in his Hooked X book. To me, the Whetstone River represents a far inland location where multiple oceanic origins dwindle down and converge near the N/S Continental Divide.
I'm just speculating, but it seems probable that medieval Scandinavians discovered this far-inland circular route even before the time of the KRS. I say this because I recently discovered that Runestone Hill is on a direct compass line between Duluth, MN (end of westward sailing), and this Whetstone River area, which makes me think Runestone Hill was added to existing mapping knowledge begun elsewhere--such as farther west where the various oceanic routes dwindle down and converge.
With all due respect to the locals living there in these modern times, this area still seems like it's out in the middle of nowhere...which only adds to its charm and beauty. It would have been a wonderful region to make a wrong turn and get lost in, but I think this remote area may have had medieval plans for future development. My guess is that monks may have been interested in the Whetstone River because it was several miles from Big Stone Lake, which would become a city. (A certain amount of remoteness was required.) So, was this mid-continental spot intended for the beginnings of a new empire, or perhaps something more lowly?
Anyway, it is my hope that objects of interest can be found underground along the Whetstone River in the future (in specific locations), which would help corroborate the already very authentic KRS. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Scott will return to his roots for a closer look.... I recommend a ferrous-only, deep penetrating iron detector, with professional archaeology team backup. Scott, I think you may be able to turn "history as we know it" on its head yet, right here from your own backyard!
Scott, as you know, your latest episode is online, I want to give you a positive
ReplyDeletefeedback about any sequel you may be thinking of! Louis Leakey went to the
area near Calico California in the 1960s that has an ancient bed of knapped
flints. Given that like Homo Habilis his "Zinj" was a tool maker, yet did not have the omnivore range as a diet, judging from the robust jaws, is it easy to link a
middle range Gigantopithicus to Zinjanthropus? If we do that, we must hand
"Giganto" a very large "gut" in terms of a stomach and intestinal system. It does
look like Homo Erectus branched out of Homo Habilis, but Giganto communities
often existed in habitats similar to those of our ancestors. A divergence between
10 million and 3 million years ago places all Bigfoot species between us and the Orangutans. They all could have been almost totally bipedal, there are no
hip bones to contradict the idea. More cautious reconstructions assume they
were or are like gorillas. I think that the land bridge between Siberia & Alaska
saw many migrations between 3 million and 10,000 B.C so this reluctance to
people North America prior to 50,000 B.C flies at common sense. Louis Leakey
after traveling to Barstow and Calico California totally swore he was looking at knapped certs or flints from 200,ooo years ago, which implied an intellect easily
equal to Homo Habilis. I feel you are wise to hold back as does Ranae Holland
from being 100% certain either way on the big BIGFOOT question, and yes... any bones with a unique DNA creates a new classification system! We have as
an example of this the Denisovans. They are not Neandertals, nor Cro-Magnon.
They could be a superlatively well adapted species, we assume bipedal. We
have even less remains than we do of Gigantopithicus. One theory had some
of the Neanderthals as being more carnivore than us. Robust jaws suggest a
leafy green diet and less meat, as does a very large stomach. I think we all are
less than 30 years away from several discoveries that could revolutionize the
way Anthropology is taught in terms of the Western Hemisphere. I did like the show! Don't slam shut any metaphoric doors of conjecture and inquiry just yet!
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/barstow/calico.print.html
http://www.olduvaiproject.org/flk-zinj-and-the-zinjanthropus/
"Traditional interpretations of hominid strategies of carcass acquisition revolve around the debate over whether early hominids hunted or scavenged. A popular version of the scavenging scenario is the carnivore-hominid-carnivore hypothesis, which argues that hominids acquired animal resources primarily through passive, opportunistic scavenging from felid-defleshed, abandoned carcasses. Its main empirical support comes from the analysis of tooth mark frequency and distribution at the FLK Zinj site, in which it was claimed that certain bones exhibited a high frequency of tooth marks, only explainable if felids had preceded hominids in carcass defleshing. The work carried out by TOPPP (The Olduvai Paleoanthropological and Palaeoecological Project) shows that previous estimates of tooth marks on the FLK Zinj assemblage were artificially high, since natural biochemical marks were mistaken for tooth marks. Revised estimates are similar to those obtained in experiments in which hyenas intervene in bone modification only after thorough butchery by humans. Furthermore, analyses of percussion marks, notches, and breakage patterns provide data which are best interpreted as the results of hominid activity (hammerstone percussion and marrow extraction), based on modern experiments."
Boston's BIG DIG cut into layers of landfill and old artifacts, from the colonial era.
ReplyDeleteWe humans tend to rebuild on the same sites over and over again, the core areas
of our major cities are more than historic, they may be ancient. If our Hemisphere
could have been traveled to by our Great Ape ancestors or near kin for 3 million
years, and the peopling of the Hawaiian Islands by individuals very much like
the "Hobbits" of Flores in Indonesia is not absurd at all, the French are very late
in the day if the DU LUTH stone with the 1679 date on it is accurate. I don't care
if DU = of and a village of LUTH rather than LHAT was founded in 1679 or 1619
or even if someone from Quebec carved it to honor Monsuieur Lhat even as his
name was not given in full, but i do care if the carver is not French and is very
contemporary to Aaron Burr or Thomas Jefferson. I know the experts are wrong,
and not all is a string of clever and not so clever hoaxes. Even if i assume the
SEVEN is a quickly modified one, or play name games, we still are under the
impression an object most curious was shipped to France because the Swedish
botanist had few reasons to lie. The irony is, a Clovis social meme & paradigm
is being applied to A.D dates as well as Ice Age B.C ones. Even if the French
looted less than the English and save for Louis 14th's minions, left nearly all
the marker stones alone, much of our history and prehistory was decimated by
the bulldozers of developers after WWII as the pieces of legislation IKE signed
made suburbia possible. If someone did not pause on a local construction site,
our mutual past was lost. This amazing social change ate into our ancient past
in ways only someone like Joan Pope can truly appreciate. In my lifetime I've
seen these changes. I live near a wood that is loosely like the area was in 1675 in my native New England. If the French had discovered nearly all your local
waterways, in a manner not unlike the folks "Gunn" has talked to you about, it
does seem realistic to see this as waves of people discovering anew what the
ancients truly knew. I'm assuming New World Sasquatch myths are not about
Old World gorillas. Horses were once here, but died out as the Younger Dryas
was yet to be. Camels millions of years ago migrated from here. Mammoths had
crossed the land bridge connecting Siberia to Alaska. As with the Atlantic and
the submerged islands of the Georges Bank, traffic was two way. The idea of an
epidemic in the mid-1300s sweeping down from Hudson's Bay into the vastness
of the Mississippi again is not absurd at all, it may even heavily impacted the East Coast only to have folks recover quicker. Rather than just 30,000 years
worth of a lore, maybe shamanism goes back 300,000 to 3,000,ooo years.
Did our ancient generations have more of a continuity than we think? PBS has
a NOVA episode, DECODING NEANDERTHALS, that focused on how birch bark resin is extracted. This is both OLD WORLD and NEW WORLD, did this lore
cross the Atlantic or the Pacific, or better yet, how often did it cross both these
vast bodies of water? We are like the Pompeii-ans, prior to Vesuvius erupting,
we have re-invented the safety pins that we utilize in our lives. The same may be said about our Leyden Jars. Your willingness to keep an inquiry open does
bespeak of a basic honesty if you are open minded. How people traveled and
how people traded is more important than all the wars of the past 10,000 years
if our cranial capacity reached its near to maximum volume some 250,000 to
500,000 years ago. Even the Denisovans had the same level of sapience we
see in us and all Neanderthals or later on Neandertals. We know we are after
the biological revolution of 800,000 to 500,000 years ago, and the ongoing cultural revolution since then! John Hawks's ideas about the Neandertals are
cutting edge. I think Louis Leakey and Raymond Dart had reason on their side
as they saw past the Piltdown Man consensus. You are following in their footsteps i feel!
Wow; that was quite an ambitious mind dump! Lot's of good stuff there, but I'm not sure how to respond other than your basic message is for skeptics to keep an open mind, for what they often claim is "impossible", is actually quite possible, and in several cases, is true!
DeleteThe submerged islands of the Georges Bank, traffic say was two way. An
ReplyDeleteepidemic in the mid-1300s sweeping down from Hudson's Bay into the vastness
of the Mississippi again is not absurd at all, it may even heavily impacted the East Coast only to have folks recover quicker. Rather than just 30,000 years
worth of a lore, maybe shamanism goes back 300,000 to 3,000,ooo years.
Did our ancient generations have more of a continuity than we think? PBS has
a NOVA episode, DECODING NEANDERTHALS, that focused on how birch bark resin is extracted. This is both OLD WORLD and NEW WORLD, did this lore
cross the Atlantic or the Pacific, or better yet, how often did it cross both these
vast bodies of water? We are like the Pompeii-ans, prior to Vesuvius erupting,
we have re-invented the safety pins that we utilize in our lives. The same may be said about our Leyden Jars. Your willingness to keep an inquiry open does
bespeak of a basic honesty if you are open minded. How people traveled and
how people traded is more important than all the wars of the past 10,000 years
if our cranial capacity reached its near to maximum volume some 250,000 to
500,000 years ago. Even the Denisovans had the same level of sapience we
see in us and all Neanderthals or later on Neandertals. We know we are after
the biological revolution of 800,000 to 500,000 years ago, and the ongoing cultural revolution since then! John Hawks's ideas about the Neandertals are
cutting edge. I think Louis Leakey and Raymond Dart had reason on their side
as they saw past the Piltdown Man consensus that once had been so attractive.
If an equally rigid set of fixed beliefs is being challenged again, then A.U can be
thought of as a gateway into the future, i feel America Unearthed does deserve at least two more seasons if future episodes build on past ones, and add more
information that time constraints placed content restrictions on over these three
seasons! If only the Americas can be correctly integrated into our Old World
Anthropology and Archaeology! If only for once we can have realistic timelines!
The Western Hemisphere is thought to be more empty and unpeopled than it actually was! The Freemasons knew this, as did many of the Christianized Vikings who still memorized their Sagas. Your idea about the Cistercians is
late in the day, but apt. This ancient lore, that could have evolved as the Terror Birds died off. We can only surmise at what once was, Plato senses history.
Scott... pardon my overlapping abundance of prose that is in its way a prosepoem
ReplyDeleteto thy basic honesty. Even after A.U's Fifth Season, if you could keep this blog open as a way for some of us to articulate out our better ideas, I'd be more than thankful!
The internet posting engine cut off my rambling opines, i wanted to get all in, that I wanted to say. Just now I realize Season One of Ancient Aliens has arrived on NETFLIX, this hints to me in good time we "netflic fans" will see the rest of A.A in short order! I also await the eventual day when America Unearthed can be seen over a long holiday or very uneventful weekend! I am going to miss PRIMEVAL and the BBC's WALKING WITH CAVEMEN, BEASTS and MONSTERS episodes, they are leaving Netflix. Is there any way you could tap Patrick Spain's talents if you further look at Orang Pendak or Yowie? He did rather well on his excursions, when in the Amazon, he even did endure bullet ant bites for five minutes as part of a manhood ritual in order to gain the respect of a local hunter/gatherer tribe! Not all of us know about his great-uncle CHARLES FORT! An illness took him out of commission for a time, but i think he has recovered! Is there a way to inclusively include some Yeti or Bigfoot lore into Anthropology by bringing "on camera" folks who have tried to answer the big question? I think Zinjanthropus fossils as well as those of Gigantopithecus are very close to being halfway to a proof positive! Again, those tool manipulating Flores "Hobbits" have me happily rereading Tolkien as i wonder if the smelting of gold or lead was possible prior to 50,000 B.C!!! Normally I'd class the Flores "Hobbits" with Johanson's LUCY as i want their near kin to be on the Isthmus of Panama counting on their fingers flocks of very large herbivore Terror Birds! Normally, most Australopithicines were under five feet but often walked upright in a bipedal manner on their own two feet. :) i think!!!
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/40-years-later-lucy-discoverer-don-johanson-adds-human-origin-n253991
I have to admit to be a little confused about your comments on the older shows.
DeleteAs far as keeping the blog going after America Unearthed, I'll be happy to as long as people are interested.
~In Dan Brown's 'The Da Vinci Code' one of the early scenes is the setting for Silus on his mission to steal the key stone. He follows the prime meridian markers to the base of the obelisk in the church, and smashes a tile, thinking he will find it there. When you were in St. Sulpice, did you observe the Rose Line {prime meridian markers} leading to the obelisk? Do the tiles have embossed or incaviligla images? At the end of the book, Robert Langdon follows the Rose Line to La Pyramide at Musee du Louvre, and bows to the tomb of Mary Magdaline where curator Jacques Sauniere has secretly enshrined her within La Pyramide Inversee, representing the 'blade' and the 'chalice,' the Star of David, Solomon's Seal. Does the Rose Line have any meaning in relations to La Verendrye Stone?
ReplyDeleteKevin,
ReplyDeleteYes, we did observe the gold solstice line at inside St. Sulpice and where it marches up the obelisk. The Rose line in some quarters is 45 degrees north latitude; the optimal latitude for making astronomical observations on the planet.
I'm sure it played some role in La Verendrye's travels.
Hello Mr. Wolter, I want to thank you for the kindness you showed me a few years back when I texted you a picture of an item that does look like BIF found here in MN, it was an item with rune type markings and you respectfully told me it was a natural BIF, yet you encouraged me to keep enjoying the hunt. What I did not share with you then because I was an ignorant rookie and did not know at the time is this item has a specific gravity over 7.3 and 2 spectral analysis showed it is over 94% iron yet it does not rust because of the other 2 alloys present which I believe may be similar to bog iron. In researching modern Nordic recreated iron blooms, it does have a strong resemblance. I realize it may not be related to the 1362 expedition and could be an iron bloom from fur traders or loggers in the late 19th century but am at a loss in knowing who to contact that may know. Would you have any recommendations of who to ask? Thanks, and as to the 45th lat, Brigitta Wallace this March 2018 came out and stated she believes that latitude in New Brunswick is where "Hop" is located. Kinda exciting in my book, lol. Cheers, Scott Lund
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