Sunday, September 3, 2017

A Preliminary Investigation into the Geology of the Overton Stone

On a perfect sunny day on August 31, 2017, my wife and I along with three friends hiked along the rocky shoreline of extreme southwestern Nova Scotia, Canada, to see, potentially, one of the most exciting petroglyphs in North America.  As we approached the two, car-sized boulders sitting on a slight rise roughly three-hundred feet from the ocean at low tide, the carvings quickly came into view. 

The carvings are on the south-facing surface of the larger boulder roughly four feet off the ground.  What stood out most prominently was the approximately six-inch tall Templar style cross encircled with an egg-shaped line that had four dots at the cardinal points at the flared ends of the cross.  The lower arm of the cross is longer than the other three resembling a Christian style cross some have interpreted to be connected to the Portuguese Templars.   Immediately left of the cross is what some say is a leaf, but to me it looks like a feather carved in detail.  Underneath the feather are what appears to be crossed tobacco leaves in the form of an “X.”  Immediately to the right of these is a carving of a crescent moon or possibly Venus.


Janet Wolter points the Overton Stone carvings of a Templar Cross, crossed tobacco leaves, a large feather and a crescent moon. (Courtesy of Patrick Shekleton)

My goals for the investigation were to document the rock type which is a strongly foliated mica schist, obtain a rock sample from the back side of the boulder for laboratory analysis of the mineralogy to try and understand aspects of the weathering, examine the depths and weathering aspects of the carvings, and to assess the site for possible archaeological assessment and possible dating of the carvings.  Fortunately, I was successful in all getting everything I hoped to accomplish on this trip done.  I’ll provide additional comments about the laboratory analysis of the rock and the archaeological work as results become available.

Of course, the significance of these carvings to my own and others’ research is huge.  If several centuries old they represent what was likely the consummation of a strategic alliance between a group of Knights Templar from Europe and the local indigenous people; the Mi’kmaq.  It would provide powerful new evidence that not only that pre-Columbian Templars visited these shores, but they had positive relations with Native Americas.  I have argued for years this allegiance was due in large part to their shared ideological views that included above all else a deep reverence of the Goddess they also called the, “Holy Mother.”  These carvings go a long way to proving this thesis was indeed true.  Stay tuned as we learn about these amazing carvings. 

108 comments:

  1. since you were investigating the geology of the Overton stone, did you take samples from it to view under magnification?

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    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I took a sample from the back side of the boulder with comparable weathering to the south-facing side of the boulder with the carvings. I also took a sample from an outcrop of the same rock type along the shoreline roughly 50 yards away.

      This coming week I'll make thin sections of the rock and identify the mineralogy and generate a polished cross-section to document the thickness and characteristics of the weathering profile.

      At that point I'll have a better understanding of the relative age of the carvings. No samples were taken within or near the carvings, although I did take a lot of photographs.

      Delete
    2. Keep up the great work, Scott! I am looking forward to the results of your geological testing.

      All the best,

      -Tom

      Delete
    3. Hi Tom,

      Nice to hear from you. The results of my geological work likely won't tell us the exact age of the carvings. However, the planned archaeological work to be performed by qualified pros might just give us a hard date that we're looking for.

      I will keep you informed on what their plans are for that work.

      Delete
    4. I believe that is a corn leaf under the tobacco leaf then the feather
      Matt W

      Delete
    5. Matt W,

      I suppose it could be corn leaves, but tobacco is a sacred plant and is my best guess. I think we'll learn more when we have a conversation with the Mi'kmaq.

      Delete
    6. Sounds great Scott keep up the good work

      Matt W

      Delete
  2. How can one determine any data, or comparable weathering, if not taken from the carving?

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    Replies
    1. The reason is because a sample from the carvings isn’t necessary. For what I want to do, two small pieces from the ground/beach will work just fine. I don’t expect my work to come up with a specific date; it will only tell us if the carvings are modern (less than a century or so) or older. That alone would be very helpful.

      I did a similar thing with the Kensington Rune Stone in that I didn’t need to take a sample from the inscription to get the conclusive data to put a relative age of the inscription. Fortunately, it was enough to definitively prove it is authentic.

      Delete
    2. "I did a similar thing with the Kensington Rune Stone in that I didn’t need to take a sample from the inscription to get the conclusive data to put a relative age of the inscription. Fortunately, it was enough to definitively prove it is authentic."

      If we are to take you at your word, your Kensington Rune Stone findings only put the inscription at least 200 years old, not definitively 500 years old. You then claimed the inscription was 500 years old because of the date carved on the rock. That is not science. That is not proof of anything.

      Delete
    3. The key words in my statement are “at least 200 years.” The weathering of the man-made surfaces of the KRS are clearly older since the mica minerals on the tombstones began to come off the exposed surfaces at approximately 200 years, whereas on the man-made surfaces of the KRS the micas are completely gone. This eliminated the possibility of a late 19th Century hoax as so many believed at the time, and apparently still do... These facts leave only one logical conclusion; the KRS is an authentic 14th Century artifact per the 1362 dates carved onto it twice.

      The authenticity of the KRS is a matter of scientific fact, not faith or belief systems.

      Delete
    4. "This eliminated the possibility of a late 19th Century hoax as so many believed at the time, and apparently still do... These facts leave only one logical conclusion; the KRS is an authentic 14th Century artifact per the 1362 dates carved onto it twice."

      This is not sound logic. It is a false dilemma.

      Delete
    5. Clearly your mind is made up about the KRS and that’s fine. I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

      Delete
    6. I think what Anonymous is saying is that his/her mind is made up about your investigative techniques and the assumptions you make from them. He/she didn't really offer an opinion on the authenticity of the KRS.

      BL

      Delete
    7. BL,

      There is no evidence that Anonymous has the qualifications to pass informed judgement about my investigative techniques or the assumptions I made so the opinion expressed is based solely on personal beliefs IMHO.

      In any case, they are welcome to believe what they want.

      Delete
    8. "There is no evidence that Anonymous has the qualifications to pass informed judgement about my investigative techniques or the assumptions I made so the opinion expressed is based solely on personal beliefs IMHO." A truer statement could not be made, Scott. Since you refuse to engage in the standard peer review process, despite numerous requests and much interest in the topic matter, you can always allege that nobody has these qualifications. As long as you keep your research a secret, nobody can be educated about it to the point of being able to offer a sensible critique. You are asking us all to essentially take your word for it. I'm not willing to that. If you are, then I have a deed to a New York bridge I'm willing to sell you for the low, low price of $100. It's a bargain. Take my word for it.

      BL

      Delete
    9. I’ll hold onto that cash thank you very much. Fact: my research was peer reviewed by several academics and was published in report form and in the book, Compelling new Evidence, for all the world to see. You might also want to read what Professor Emeritus Alice B. Kehoe wrote about my KRS research in her 2005 book, “The Kensington Runestone: Approaching a Research Question Holistically.”

      Here’s a link to the book so you can purchase it and read for yourself: https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Runestone-Approaching-Research-Holistically/dp/1577663713/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504637510&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Alice+B.+Kehoe++Kensington+Rune+Stone

      Delete
    10. So when the Professor Emeritus also wrote that your television show America Unearthed and your Templar theories are hogwash, should we take her at her word? I just googled her opinions on this, like most people probably did when you named her as a supporter, so you might want to address this issue.

      Neil Dicksen

      Delete
    11. Her supportive comments about mine and Dick Nielsen’s research and geological work that proved the KRS to be a medieval artifact are well documented. She agreed that we had conclusively proven the case and wrote a book expressing that supportive opinion.

      That she didn't care for my TV show might be due to her never having been asked to be a guest, but I don't know. Our show was well done, very successful and I am very proud of the work we did on it. Not everyone who watched it were fans which apparently included Alice, but that's fine. People are welcome to their opinion.

      What Alice disagrees with is in my interpretation of who created the KRS. She’s wrong about the Templars of course, but that’s also fine. She was allowed to express her opinion about the Templars in our documentary film, “Holy Grail in America”, but her unsupported and uninformed opinion is meaningless especially in light of voluminous new evidence.

      Frankly, it’s embarrassing she was completely unaware of the Native American/Templar strategic alliance, but that’s another matter. If the Overton Stone is indeed many centuries old it pretty much proves the point I’ve been making for several years don’t you think?

      Delete
    12. So the Professor Emeritus' meaningless, uninformed, unsupported opinions going outside of her expertise in regard to your Geology is acceptable, but not when she sticks within her discipline to take issue with your Templar speculations. Understood.

      Neil Dicksen

      Delete
    13. Anonymous Troll,

      Alice respected the work of a qualified geological professional which you obviously don’t. I see that as your problem, not hers. Further, Alice knows nothing about the Knights Templar order other than what academics think they know. She also knows it’s academic suicide to embrace any notion that pre-Columbian Templars were in North America. That is a big problem within certain academic disciplines that ultimately hurts everyone.

      Delete
  3. When was the first reported sighting of the carvings on this conspicuous rock that is located in a publicly accessible spot? Not even ten years ago?

    Curious.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To my knowledge, the carvings were only made public a few years ago. However, I’m sure it’s been known locally for a long time. I bet the Mi’kmaq have known about it for centuries if it is indeed that old.

      It’s on private land and is posted with signs, but we were told as long as you stayed on the trail it was OK to visit the site.

      Delete
    2. Might want to talk to more locals then. Locals who may have photographed the site for its scenic beauty, let's say twenty years ago at some sort of picnic.

      Curious?

      Delete
    3. That’s good idea; there has to be photos of it somewhere up there that people have taken. Of course, the best source of information about it and its history would be from the local indigenous folks. They must know something.

      Delete
    4. I'd ask Hutton Pulitzer if he carved it in preparation for his appearance on the TV show "The Curse of Oak Island".

      Delete
    5. Hutton isn’t that talented with a hammer and chisel. Besides, I suspect Hell would freeze over before he’d appear on the show again.

      Delete
    6. Correction.... "BE ALLOWED to appear ont he show again."

      Delete
    7. I'm sure Hutton will be just fine; enjoy the show as the entertainment it is.

      Delete
  4. Very Interesting Scott,

    Did you acquire an Archaeological Reconnaissance (Category 2) archaeology permit from the Nova Scotia Department of Communities, Culture and Heritage?

    Regards,

    D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Funny you should mention that as I had a lengthy conversation yesterday with the archaeologist who will be performing the work in Canada. No, a permit wasn’t necessary for our visit.

      The next time we go, the archaeologist will have all the proper permits, and hopefully, permission from the Mi’kmaq to do the work.

      Stay tuned.

      Delete
  5. "Immediately to the right of these is a carving of a crescent moon or possibly Venus." All these years of "research" and you can't tell the difference between the two?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You seem to know the difference; care to enlighten us?

      Delete
    2. My disdain for your trolls may have come across too snarky. I should have suggested The Three Billy Goats Gruff.

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    3. Anthony,

      I don't publish the most vile comments which are primarily made by one individual who is obsessed with trying to slam my KRS research. I know who this person is and only allow posts that don't cross the line. I'll give you one example of his grade school trolling. You'll notice the name "Neil Dicksen" a few comments above. This is a nod to his obsession with Dick Nielsen who he idolizes since Dick turned against me several back. Sadly, all this did was undermine Dick's credibility and diminish his legacy.

      Clearly this particular troll has no life which will be evidenced by more mindless comments to soon come.

      Delete
    4. Venus would only appear as a crescent if you looked at it with a telescope. Are you claiming your Templars had telescopes? If so, when?

      Delete
    5. Anonymous,

      My Templars? I think the fact the crescent is there, and if the crescent was carved by the Templars as a symbol of Venus, then it tells us they must have been able to see it. This also means they had the technology to see it. Do I know what that technology was? I don't. However, one thing I learned long ago is to not underestimate their scientific abilities. They acquired knowledge from many cultures in the near and far east and astronomy was one of the primary sciences they sought as much knowledge about as they could. Keep in mind the Tibetan monks had monasteries in the Himalayan Mountains that served as the finest observatories in the world.

      I think the Overton Stone carving could evidence that supports that premise.

      Delete
    6. Scott,

      I speak and read Tibetan, I know Tibetans and I have been to Tibet more than once. I can categorically assure you that Tibetans did not have observatories of any kind.

      Joseph Christopher

      Delete
    7. Anonymous,

      One doesn't need a telescope to see a crescent Venus as she appears during the day.

      Quit thinking about just the Templar knights and wrap your mind around the clerics behind them. You're focusing your attention on football teams while failing to see an entire system of universities.

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    8. Joseph,

      I’ve been to multiple monasteries above 13,000 feet in Nepal and they pay close attention to the stars and the planets including Venus. Observatories don’t have to have telescopes to see details in the heavens which includes that crescent of Venus.

      I’m afraid you are wrong in your assumption my friend.

      Delete
    9. Anthony,

      The Dicksen is being simply being a troll and has no interest in learning. He's here to harass.

      Delete
    10. Anthony,
      Can you see Venus during the day with the naked eye? I hope Scott isn't referring to me as a troll by asking such an obvious question. But as I understand it, Scott is claiming that the Templars had to be able to see Venus as a crescent and would have developed some unknown technology to do so. That's what he wrote. But doesn't that seem to be working backwards to justify an already embraced conclusion? Accepting only interpretations that fit a preconceived notion.

      Can't you see it Anthony? This is not how history is written.

      Delete
    11. So an observatory is someone looking at and "paying attention" to things in the sky. By that definition I have to admit you are right.

      Joseph Christopher

      Delete
    12. Anonymous,

      You can alleviate the label of “troll” by diching the combative attitude and having the decency of using your real name. That’s the first step in getting the respect you feel you deserve; start there. Second, don’t over-analyze the situation in an attempt to play “gotcha.” Just be polite and ask questions; stop making accusations.

      Yes, the crescent shape of the planet Venus can be seen under optimal viewing conditions. I have seen it myself. If I can see it, then I’m sure the Templars, and both Tibetan and Nepalese monks could as well.

      Satisfied?

      Delete
    13. If you have seen Venus as a crescent, and you must have extraordinary eyesight, why didn't you tell me that yesterday?

      Delete
    14. You didn’t ask… I had never seen so many stars in the sky or the moon and planets so clearly as I did the Himalayas in Nepal. I can also say that I have seen Mount Everest. It was truly amazing.

      Delete
    15. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Templars used telescopes. Especially with their contact with other peoples. Telescopes have been around for thousands of years. Many of the ancient optical lenses have been found. Smart enough to create an optical lens and yet not smart enough to stack them, is an argument which holds no water. Our ancestors were able to do some amazing things with just naked-eye observations. An observatory doesn't have to contain a telescope. A Cenote can be used, as well as the gap in the Overton stone itself. Many seemingly innocuous buildings are actually observatories.

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
  6. Hello Walter,
    The carvings look like they are in incredible shape. I noticed some moss on the right side of the carvings. Do you believe the carvings were touched up? Possibly cleaned chemically or re-chiseled for clarity?

    Moises Ferreira

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    Replies
    1. Moises,

      I have no reason to believe the carvings have been cleaned with chemicals or anything else. Because of its southern exposure it probably doesn't lend itself to conditions for aggressive lichen growth. I'm not an expert, but there was a black colored lichen and the orange colored lichen growing a various surface of the two boulders, but I'd say only 15-20% of the rock surfaces had lichen present.

      Delete
  7. Hey Scott,
    Where in the Mediterranean were there Knights Templar abbeys, churches, sects, etc. besides the holy land (Israel) and Southern France?

    Dario

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dario,

      A quick internet search will show many sites in the Mediterranean region, but Malta is one place you might want to look into.

      Delete
  8. Hello Scott,

    There's a third possibility to consider with the Crescent symbol. A solar eclipse seems to fit in with the overall symbolism. If the two crossed tobacco leaves are the path of the sun and the feather the moon, it would stand to reason this is depicting an eclipse.

    I think the feather depicts the moon and has similar symbolism going all the way back to ancient Egypt, and quite possibly long before. I've seen depictions of the Moon Goddess Diana with a pattern similar to the feather comprising her hairstyle.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. An eclipse symbol is certainly a possibility. If so, it would likely be of Native American origin. The Templars were known to use the symbol of a circle with two parallel horizontal lines across the center portion of the circle.

      The gift of an eagle feather is the highest honor Native Americans can bestow; I'm inclined to think that is what it is most likely related to, but it could have another meaning I suppose.

      Delete
    2. The same circle with two parallel lines which is present on the Halpern Oak Island map??? Does this make everything written below the symbol instructions for calculating longitude???

      Looking at that map in a whole new way,

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    3. Anthony,

      Yes, everything below that symbol is important (including one of three Hooked X's) and you can be sure they understood how to calculate longitude as there are several on the map plotted correctly using Paris as the Prime Meridian.

      This map, and several others in the document that have yet to be published, are quite incredible.

      Delete
    4. Scott & Anonymous

      Could the crossed feather be Crossed Palm Leaves- as in Palm Sunday.

      Many western churches have observed palm blessings and distributions to the congregation on Palm Sunday since the middle ages. Early references to Palm Sunday observations, including a procession and blessing of palms, go as far back as the fourth and eighth centuries.

      The date of Easter Day is usually the first Sunday after the first Full Moon occurring on or after the March equinox or Palm Sunday.

      Easter Sunday would have a crescent moon- since it not a full moon.

      https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/common/palm-sunday

      P@

      Delete
    5. Pasadena,

      I don't know if Palm Sunday is connected to the carvings in any way, but I suppose that's possible. Their age will tell us a lot I suspect, but regardless I think some type of strategic alliance or agreement was consummated that prompted the carvings at such a prominently location.

      Delete
    6. Having established their north-south line in Paris...Were the brothers using the Pythagorean theorem to navigate? I believe I'm visualizing how it works just not sure how they counted their knots while at sea. I'm already positive they knew about the tropics and equator. They go all the way back to Sumeria as the Way of Enlil, the Way of Enki, and the Way of Anu.

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    7. Anthony,

      I'm not aware of the specific mathematics used by the medieval Templars while on their expeditions across the seas. However, I would never underestimate their intellectual capabilities.

      Knowledge of higher order mathematics, geometry and astronomy is what gave them an advantage over their rivals. That, and ancient maps and knowledge of previous navigation to the various continents in the distant past.

      Delete
  9. Hello Scott,

    Other than failing to sign my name to the solar eclipse idea, I forgot to mention, IF...and that's a BIG IF the solar eclipse interpretation is correct, it could help date the inscription.

    Best regards,

    Anthony Warren

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anthony,

      That's a very good point and might be corroborated by other evidence.

      Delete
  10. ~This is untrelated, but an interesting side note. On Labor Day my wife and I visited the Lone Lake Park on Shady Oak Road to view the rain gardens and Monarch waystation installed by the Nine Mile Creek Watershed district. We believe you and Jan were there with your two dachshunds beginning a walk into the into the moraine trails. We have never seen carvings on our walks, but realize the geological features would interest you. Besides being an unusual hiking outing, are you investigating something yet to be revealed in an episode?~

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Kevin,

      You should have come up to us and said hello. Wish I had something interesting and mysterious to tell about Lone Lake, but its just a really nice and quiet place to take a walk. It'll be even better in a few weeks when the leaves turn.

      Delete
  11. Scott

    The Portuguese Cross and the 4 dots depict the five wounds associated directly with Christ's crucifixion, i.e., the nail wounds on his hands and feet as well as the lance wound from the roman soldier which pierced Christ's side. Jerusalem Cross or Cross of the First Templar Crusader Knights of the Holy Sepulchre Jerusalem.

    P@

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pasadena,

      You have 4 dots representing 5 wounds; I don't follow that?

      Delete
    2. Scott

      I know you don't like Wikipedia but here it is-

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_cross

      "While the symbol of the five-fold cross appears to originate in the 11th century, its association with the Kingdom of Jerusalem dates to the second half of the 13th century.

      The symbolism of the five-fold cross is variously given as the Five Wounds of Christ, Christ and the four evangelists, or Christ and the four quarters of the world. The symbolism of five crosses representing the Five Wounds is first recorded in the context of the consecration of the St Brelade's Church under the patronage of Robert of Normandy (before 1035); the crosses are incised in the church's altar stone."

      The picture of the conventional arms of the Kingdom of Jerusalem matches it somewhat perfectly.

      p@

      Delete
    3. Pasadena,

      The Jerusalem Cross has smaller crosses in the four quadrants; this cross has them at the cardinal points. It's different, but I can see what you're saying. I think there is a more esoteric meaning to these carvings rather than purely Roman Christian symbolism, but we don't know for sure.

      Once we know its age WE might have a better idea of the meaning.

      Delete
    4. Scott

      Rose Cross (Rosy Cross, Rosencreutz)

      ----see picture at this site----

      http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1339

      The earliest rose crosses were a variation of the Christian ankh or crux ansata, and are associated with the Coptic (Egyptian) church, and related Gnostic sects.
      Hidden significance of the symbol is the union of the rose of Mary with the Cross of Christ, the union of the divine feminine with the divine masculine. The shape of the rose cross suggests the rosary or the mirror-cross of Venus.

      P@

      Delete
  12. Hello Scott,

    Are the punch marks I'm seeing intentionally made, or are they due to natural processes?

    If the crescent symbol does represent Venus, it gives a whole new interpretation. I can't help but to see DC in the diamond made by the punch marks around the cross. Makes me wonder if this pertains to astronomically ordained spot of the AVM between Virgin(ia)
    Mary(land).

    This is cool stuff, Scott. I appreciate your work.

    Anthony Warren

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anthony,

      The punch marks looked to be man made as they were in the four cardinal points around the egg. I think we need to get the Mi'kmaq perspective on these carvings at some point. I'll be they know.

      Delete
    2. Anthony & Scott

      YouTube Video of the Overton Stone

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8MVtR1W0aE

      What is your opinion's on the other marking on the bottom of the stone 06 07?

      Scott did you look nearby at Yarmouth Runic Stone. The Stone is currently on display at the Yarmouth County Museum.
      Dr. Fell thought it might be Basque- meaning "Basque people have subdued this land".

      P@

      Delete
    3. I'm referring to the punch marks that appear to be between the two tobacco leaves, and the tobacco leaf and the quill of the feather. There appears to be several others especially in the video recommended by Pasadena.

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    4. Pasadena,

      I'm not sure what to think of those numbers or the two other symbols carved nearer to the ground. They could be dates or coordinates; hard to say.

      We did not see the Yarmouth inscription, although I plan to at some point. I'm skeptical of a lot of Barry Fell's translations. However, I'm not in a position to comment on this translation in this case as I'm unfamiliar with the script.

      Delete
    5. Anthony,

      I don't think those depressions are man made. The way the rock weathers creates areas with deep pitting; I think that's what those marks are.

      Delete
  13. Hello Scott,

    I believe there are two major implications to your work no one talks about. The first being, the United States is not a British colony. The second is the rapid spread of the Bubonic plague across the world, due to the grossly underestimated size and scope of the Templar shipping Empire. I've read several sources which claimed the Templars only possessed nine ships, and never reached India, the Far East,
    America, or anywhere outside of the Mediterranean Sea.

    I can foresee some major revisions coming to our history books. Completely destroying the myth of an all-white Christian Republic propagated within the history books of many public school systems. Personally, I long for the day when I don't have to hear some smug Britt call me property of their German Queen. In the immortal words of the late Merle Haggard, "They're walking on the Fightin side of me".

    Anthony Warren

    ReplyDelete
  14. "I'm not aware of the specific mathematics used by the medieval Templars while on their expeditions across the seas. However, I would never underestimate their intellectual capabilities.

    Knowledge of higher order mathematics, geometry and astronomy is what gave them an advantage over their rivals."

    Scott, it seems to me that one of these does not belong. How do you reconcile these two statements?

    Regards,

    Alex J. Hiddell

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alex,

      I don’t see any conflict in these statements. We know the Templars had extensive knowledge in mathematics, geometry and astronomy, and that they were masterful sailors. While there is no question they had the necessary knowledge, what the exact specifics of the knowledge was I don’t know for certain.

      Not sure why you feel these statements need to be reconciled?

      Delete
    2. I just don't get how you know they had something if you don't know what that "something" was.

      Regards,

      Alex J. Hiddell

      Delete
    3. Alex,

      I think you're over-thinking this. What exactly the calculations were and how they use the stars/planets/sun I personally do not know. However, they used math, geometry and astronomy. I don't know how to explain it any better than that.

      Delete
    4. What needs reconciliation are the two statements below:

      1) "I think the fact the crescent is there, and if the crescent was carved by the Templars as a symbol of Venus, then it tells us they must have been able to see it. This also means they had the technology to see it."

      2) "Yes, the crescent shape of the planet Venus can be seen under optimal viewing conditions. I have seen it myself. If I can see it, then I’m sure the Templars, and both Tibetan and Nepalese monks could as well."

      On the 14th it takes technology to see Venus as a crescent. On the 15th Mr. Wolter decides that he's seen it before.

      Please explain what changed in one day.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous,

      This is a classic troll entry in a petty attempt to play “gotcha.” Comments like these don’t further the discussion and make you silly. Of course, commenting as an anonymously makes it easy to say dumb things.

      Please try again and make it productive and polite.

      Delete
    6. Alex,

      Now we are going in circles. The point is they obviously had the knowledge to successfully navigate the seas. Any navigator will tell you to do that takes an understanding of math, geometry and astronomy. The specifics of these sciences with regard to navigation I am not privy to, but because of their success with navigation we can logically deduce they knew what they were doing.

      It's really that simple.

      Delete
    7. But Scott,

      You're saying that they knew MORE than other navigators, or at least you were.

      "Knowledge of higher order mathematics, geometry and astronomy is what gave them an advantage over their rivals."

      You see my confusion?

      Regards,

      Alex J. Hiddell

      Delete
    8. Alex,

      I say this because historians want us to believe that no one during the Crusader period was making these long-range voyages. I think it’s safe to assume if this is true, one of the reasons was due to a lack of knowledge. Because we now know the Templars were capable long-range voyages, as evidenced by the KRS, SPRS, NRS, Newport Tower, etc., it is safe to assume they indeed must have had the knowledge it appears others did not.

      Is this helping you at all?

      Delete
  15. Well Scott,

    It shows they were at least the equal of the Vikings! And the Chinese. And the Polynesians (remember Kennewick Man).

    Regards,

    Alex J. Hiddell

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alex,

      Yep, I can agree with you on that!

      Delete
    2. Alex, an interesting exchange over the course of the day. I don't think the operative word is "more" - primarily because that is a word that is only relative when compared to something else. The comparison with the Vikings, Chinese, and Polynesians - or any other specific seafaring nation or group just isn't all that important. All of them were capable in their own right as navigators using the technology and knowledge present within their respective era's. The simplest measure of navigation prowess is whether the group successfully completed their journey. Navigation, in general, and certainly long distance navigation, is amalgamation of many competencies. Scott's mention of math, geometry, and astronomy being a requisite competency for medieval era long distance navigation is correct. One had to be knowledgeable in those disciplines. Jaime Ferrar in his 1495 letter to the Sovereigns of Spain touched on that very subject...and since the rhumb line azimuth sailing that Ferrar speaks of in 1495 is present in the early 14th century Italian portolans, then it is explicit that knowledge in those areas was a pre-requisite by then as well. The astrolabe made in Europe has been historically dated to the 10th century and Moorish Spain (Barcelona). The Arabs understood spherical geometry in the 9th century; if you are interested, take the time to read the English translated work of Al-Battani that is available on archive dot org. Another good book to delve into for these topics is written by John Kirtland Wright. Lastly, take some time to deconstruct the 1427 Map of the North by Claudius Clavus (along with the associated Vienna and Nancy Texts).

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    3. The takeaway for me is that people all over the world, including in Europe, had the same advantages the Templars had.

      Regards,

      Alex J. Hiddell

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    4. Alex,

      Not exactly; since the historical narrative according to historians is NOBODY made trans-Atlantic voyages from roughly 1000 A.D. to 1492. We now know the Templars made those voyages many times throughout that period which suggests a navigational advantage over other European groups at that time as we have no evidence anyone else made trans-Atlantic successfully until "Chris."

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    5. "We now know the Templars made those voyages many times throughout that period..."

      Saying it over and over again does not make it true. It takes more than fantasy and speculative interpretations to rewrite history. You need evidence, of which you have none.

      Neil Dicksen

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    6. Dick Nielsen,

      First, this will be the last comment I publish with your disrespectful corruption of my late co-author’s name. Second, you fail to accept, or comprehend, the Templars' multiple trips to North America as evidenced by the KRS, NRS, SPRS, Newport Tower, etc., that is obvious to everyone else. Turning a blind eye to the obvious is your choice.

      Think carefully and use better judgment before you post here again; you know what is acceptable and appropriate. You’ll have better luck trolling with a fishing pole than trying to score points on this blog.

      Delete
    7. Hi Scott. I'm not quite sure if I can agree with your logic here. When you say
      "We now know the Templars made those voyages many times throughout that period which suggests a navigational advantage over other European groups at that time as we have no evidence anyone else made trans-Atlantic successfully until "Chris."
      I have to point out that the KRS indicates that "if" the Templars were involved with the KRS they were in the company of other peoples. This shows they were not alone in visiting America and also shows they were with Nordic people who were proven to have been there numerous times previous. why would this indicate they had any sort of special knowledge ?

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    8. The only “other peoples” the Templars who carved and buried the KRS as a land claim were with was their Native American “blood brothers.” Last I checked the natives were already here when the pre-Columbian Templars came.

      I suspect the crew of the KRS party were mostly Norwegian with the remaining monks likely being from Scotland or somewhere else in the British Isles and possibly France. The Templar knights, and certainly the Cistercian monk who carved the KRS, were initiated with much ancient knowledge few in Europe were privy to. This would have included navigational info that was held secret and sacred. The proof of this esoteric knowledge is embedded within the KRS inscription (See my Ritual Code post for additional info).

      You don’t have to agree with my logic or anything I say or write; that is your choice.

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    9. Well, by other peoples I mean 8 göter and 22 norrmen who are noted on the KRS. (There is no mention of Templars, nor Cistercian monks)
      At any rate my question is: If the Norse had land hopped to North America previously, why would Norsemen returning to America be indicative of a secret and sacred Templar navigational advantage ?

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    10. You have to read the clues and understand the true history leading up 1362 to know it was the Templars and Cistercians who created the KRS.

      The answer to your question about these early Templar voyages to North America will be answered in due time. You might try reading my books and those of others to try and figure it out on your own. It'll mean more that way.

      Delete
  16. The only thing that needs to be reconciled is the original troll's statement of needing a telescope to view a crescent Venus. The keywords are optimal viewing conditions. Sometimes there are clouds, and Venus and the moon aren't always visible during the day. Yet, with naked eye astronomy our ancestors were able to bring the geometry of the Stars down to earth. The double Cube in Stonehenge, the equilateral triangle of Jerusalem, the cube of Mecca, the layout of Renee Le Chateau, and even the diamond which makes up the boundaries of DC and is also part of an enormous AVM. As above, So Below. With naked eye astronomy our ancestors used the orbits of Saturn and Jupiter to form an accurate clock. They found the pentagram in the orbit of Venus which contains both Pi and Phi. The 18.6 19.6 18.6 cycle of the moon. The megalithic system of math containing the megalithic yard. The eight-year cycle of Venus which repeats exactly every 40 years. One hinge is said to contain the Pythagorean theorem. I've yet to figure out what stars they were aligning their stones to. With this jealously guarded knowledge a small group of men and women took control of the world. Some of us here, are trying to figure out how they did it. A major part of which is their navigation system. These people controlled the Seas when historians say they couldn't.
    The proof is all around if you open your eyes and look.

    Anthony Warren

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  17. "The simplest measure of navigation prowess is whether the group successfully completed their journey."

    By that standard Columbus, who ended up anywhere but where he was trying to go, was a successful navigator, and the guy steering the Titanic was not.

    To put it in perspective, the Ancient Greeks [bundled up and] reached the Arctic Circle in the 4th century BCE.

    Regards,

    Alex J. Hiddell

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    Replies
    1. The Titanic failed to adjust their course after being notified. Stupidity always negates navigational skill. Columbus had an issue with his initial distance calculations because of mixing up his distance conversions, but he was capable enough to complete four trans-Atlantic voyages and bringing his crew back home every time. Yep, Pytheas in ca. 325 BC made it to the land of the midnight sun. Success is achieving your objective, making it back, and crafting a record of having been there (whether concurtent while there or by accounting afterwards). Unless, of corse, there was no intent in returning to your origination point. The gist of the discussion isn't whether navigation capabilities were sufficient to make a trans-Atlantic journey, L'Anse aux Meadows settled that already. Where this thread leads is whether the KRS, SPR, NRS, and NT have elements in their design and geographic placements that demonstrate medieval era competencies in the areas that Scott wrote about. Patrick S.

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    2. Alex, I understand your "equal advantage" counterpoint, I presume fashioned on the position that knowledge, by itself, is neutral - it affords equal advantage. In the real world things play out differently. Knowledge is stockpiled, hoarded, and guarded because access to it for one party coupled with limiting the sharing of it to others, gives a decided advantage. The 1418 School of Navigation in Sagres, Portugal was NOT open to all...and in the ensuing years Portugal reaped the advantage of restricting participation. Resources are also unequal. A voyage required funding, not all were equal. Good discussion...

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  18. The steel making process is a perfect example of compartmentalised knowledge. Once one of the most jealously guarded secrets, and is now proprietary knowledge. Those who could transmute iron into steel had a major advantage. Especially if they used meteoric iron to create a magic sword. I'm done responding to the troll. There's more important things to discuss.

    I have to agree with Matt W. I'm seeing a corn leaf as well. Corn seems more fitting for a female deity. Tobacco was for men only. Men were supposed to use ornate eagle feathers while women are said to use plain. To my eye there is nothing ornate about the eagle feather carving which would suggest it's plain and possibly female.
    I've read conflicting sources of which tobacco was used. Some say sumac was added, and others claiming a nicotine free variety. The popular story seems to be rolling enormous cigarettes called tobaccos and taking an enormous hit, holding it as long as you can until, you fall or ground and convulse. Basically inducing a seizure. After the convulsions the person would report what he saw. I think it's similar to partaking in college and holding it too long.

    Anthony Warren

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    Replies
    1. Anthony,

      The troll knows what the ground rules are if he wants his comments posted. If it's something worthwhile and furthers the discussion, I'll post it. The petty insults driven by his extreme superiority complex and jealousy, well he knows what will happen.

      I understand your argument about corn leaves and you may indeed be right. Tobacco is one the four sacred elements of the Mide' win; sage, sweet grass, cedar and tobacco. By smoking tobacco in the sacred pipe their prayers and wishes were contained within the smoke to rise to the Great Spirit in hopes of fulfillment. This is why my money is on tobacco leaves possibly carved as a symbolic request to Creator to consummate an agreement or alliance.

      Holding smoke back in college? Whatever could you be talking about...?

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    2. Anthony,

      You might want to double-check the meaning of "proprietary". Anyway, steelmaking: steel has been around for millennia and like bread-making has been independently invented all over the world. Again with what seems to me to be an imaginary advantage. If everyone has it it's not an advantage, and a bronze sword will kill you just as dead as a steel sword.

      In the first half millenium Indian steel was exported to the known world, and I know you're dying to say "But Damascus steel!" Guess where Damascus steel originated?

      So Chinese, Vikings, Arabs, Indians, Africans, Japanese, ETC. all made and in some cases exported steel, and it's been going on for millenia, so same as navigation it's not clear to me that there was any advantage.

      Best regards,

      Alex J. Hiddell

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    3. Scott,

      I get the tobacco argument. From what I recall, the Delaware were the first to use and cultivate tobacco. I would personally put my money on a corn leaf, crossed over Aloe. Probably due to the carvings of both plants in Rosslyn Chapel. I personally have 2 aloe plants, I've grown from two tiny nubs left after my Grandmother's estate sale. This variety looks strikingly similar to the carving. It's sacred to me as, my Grandmother got her aloe starts from her grandmother. Interestingly, she was not only a Healer knowledgeable with all the herbs, her mother's last name pops up in the Cathar/Cistercian/Templar/
      Freemasonic narrative. I used to hear stories of her going into the woods to harvest tree barks, various saps, and medicinal plants. She was said to cure pneumonia with some sort of turpentine and tree bark concoction.

      Anthony Warren

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  19. Anthony,

    Just what are you thoughts on "magic swords"? I have to be honest, it sounds like crazy talk but maybe there's some basis for the idea that I'm missing?

    Best regards,

    Alex J. Hiddell

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  20. I was hoping someone else would say it first...Does anyone else see the cross of Lorraine??? I'm familiar with the cross and the crescent symbolism. I don't think I've ever seen a double cross with a crescent before.

    Anthony Warren

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    Replies
    1. Anthony,

      I do see it and if you rotate the feather tobacco/corn leaves 90 degrees you also see a Hooked X. But then, the Hooked X is really an abbreviated version of the Cross of Lorraine.

      Delete
  21. Scott thank you for your willingness to share what you observe, research and investigate. Given the same opportunity, I doubt that I would be as willing as you to engage in conversation with certain of the patrons of your publishing. People who are obviously obsessed with you "personally" and verify that with their vilification of you through criticism based on criteria they themselves ignore. Also their dissertations makes for (1) painful reading and (2) painfully boring reading. As a cure for what i percieve to be useless palaver, may I suggest that these people be granted honorary emeritus status in the field of unsubstantiated, personal criticism and, although they have no original research to provide scientific contridiction of your writings, they are obviously expert at copying those who claim to. I believe your recognition of their inestimable virtues and skills may be what they need and will perhaps quiet them in the future so the rest of us might engage in interesting and informative conversation. Thanks. I appreciate your efforts and my life is more interesting for them.

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  22. Dragon Slayer,

    You might want to look up "emeritus". "Honorary emeritus" is a contradiction in terms. Although I understand the need to vent, your post will simply be considered "fanboyism" by those you seek to criticize. I too enjoy Scott's blog but you're all over the shop here.

    Best Regards,

    Alex J. Hiddell

    ReplyDelete