Sunday, November 30, 2014

Montezuma's Treasure Guarded by a Snail...

 
Bonnie and Steve Shaffer pose with Scott after shooting a scene.


It gets pretty crowded sometimes shooting close-ups; especially tight on the ledge of a cliff!


The cave system at this secret location looked like it certainly could have been a repository for Montezuma's treasure at one time.  It was remote, had all the signs of a repository and was dangerous.


This seemingly bottomless shaft was one of at least three bobby-traps in the cave system.  If one fell into this hole, you wouldn't come out of it alive.

 
Everything was thumb's up at the start of the dive.  Unfortunately, things went downhill once we submerged.
 
This episode was perhaps the most interesting "treasure hunt" I've been on so far.  The legendary stories are always interesting, but I started really getting excited when I visited the cave system in the mountains that were definitely man-made and had all the makings of a secret repository.  Since legend had it that Freddie Crystal was in this area, and the workings in the cave system appeared to be over a century old, I thought we were really onto something.  Looking up at the entrance from roughly a mile away, what I originally thought were natural caves at a distance, turned to out to much more interesting up close.  The wind eroded natural caves had definitely been extensively enhanced by man.  The question I kept asking was, "Why would someone put so much effort into a cave system that is so remote?"  Local Natives certainly could have been responsible, but if so, why the need for at least three booby traps pits, including one that went down as far as a flashlight could shine?
 
The cave system also included a large pit that could have been filled and then covered over to conceal its contents.  Those contents could certainly have been a large cache of gold and other valuables.  Since the likely repository was now empty, that meant whatever was in there had been moved.  It seemed that all indicators pointed to Lonn's property and the tunnel system below the pond.  this of course led to one of the most interesting and spooky dives I've ever done.
 
As I said in the show, I'm not big on curses and believe people make things worse for themselves with mind games.  Maybe that's why curses work; if you believe something is true, you're halfway there.  Before the final dive after three hours of being in the water, one of our divers got hypothermia and had to get out.  That left me and two safety divers, one handling the underwater camera.  Once we reached the entrance to the underwater tunnel, the third diver couldn't enter and waited at the entrance.  Keep in mind the entrance at the base of the overhanging cliff was at 35 feet underwater.  Because the rocks were angled outward overhead, I could watch my air bubbles rise along the rock which allowed me to keep my bearings.  As I entered the tunnel the roof angled down to the point I had to crawl on my knees.  Moving in I kept one eye on my bubbles knowing they were rising in the direction of my exit.  The diver carrying the camera and lights stopped just inside the cave as tunnel got too low and narrow for him to enter.  I kept going in and the diver's lights behind me got dimmer in the sediment-filled water and when it was almost pitch black I paused and turned on my own flashlight. 
 
At this point, the tunnel beckoned me to go forward and just as I was about to press on, I glanced at the rock ceiling inches above my head.  My air bubbles were no longer moving up and out.  They were coalescing and then slowly moving outward in BOTH directions.  I then turned around and saw a slight glimmer of the diver's lights and knew this was my only way to get out.  To go any further would have been foolish.  The lure of finding whatever was at the end of this tunnel wasn't worth the risk, so headed back toward that light and followed the rock wall back to the surface.
 
Once back on shore, I truly was cold, tired and a little disappointed in myself that I let the lure of treasure put me in a potentially dangerous situation.  To top it all off, to not be able to do the safest and easiest thing, drain the pond, was especially frustrating.  In a way though, it was fitting.  If Montezuma's treasure really is inside that tunnel in a cave under the pond, how ironic it's being guarded by a snail.       

71 comments:

  1. What an absolute crock, this is an intellectually embarrassing show. Give it up!..

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    1. Only intellectual wimps do not publish their names!

      Delete
  2. You should know by now that I never give up. BTW, nobody is forcing you to watch the show. So why do you?

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    1. Hey Scott,

      Not sure if your aware or if it means anything but, I noticed on your last episode of America Unearthed that you were interested in a symbol. That same symbol is on the stone slab allegedly found in the Money Pit not once but at least four times.

      Delete
    2. Tim,

      I've been to Oak Island a couple of times. Once I went specifically to see the inscribed stone you reference. I never saw it and I'm not sure it even exists. What else can I say?

      Delete
    3. Hey Scott

      Thanks for the reply. I agree the stone may not exist and the inscription might have been faked. I love your show. I was very excited when I heard that from a geological perspective Kensington Runestone is not a fake. I first saw it when I was very young back in the early 90s and the story of it has always stuck with me. After watching your first season I took my kids to see it. Hopefully one day, thanks to you it will receive the respect it deserves. Keep it up and never be discouraged.

      PS If you have any ideas where the events on the Runestone took place. Im always looking for a good camping spot.

      Delete
    4. Your best bet is near the Ohman farm near Kensington. Lots of nice parks on lakes out there. It's beautiful country.

      Delete
    5. I personally enjoy the show, you have uncovered some truly interesting history that I have never heard of, even while taking multiple history classes in college. Keep up the good work.

      Delete
    6. Scott,

      Glad you're enjoying the show and learning new things. That's really the most important thing.

      Delete
  3. Scott,

    Love the show. Do you know of any online maps that show the locations of all (or most) of the sites you discuss on your show? Do you maintain any maps that are accessible to the fans of the show? Any online maps showing locations of rune stones, petroglyphs, possible treasure and other sites of interest? I'd love to visit some of these places if given the chance. Thanks

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    1. David,

      We don't have anything formal put together other than what you see on the show. Some of the locations we go to are kept secret on purpose, so you won't have much luck there. The best success you'll have finding the sites we've shot at is by Goggling the internet for locations you want to visit. Most are pretty easy to find.

      Good luck!

      Delete
  4. Scott- I absolutely love your show and want to go back to school and get a degree in geology! I live in Utah and have followed this story since 2010. There is another clue with our little $50,000 lake inhabitants. Did you know that the Aztecs made gold jewelry out of the snails? Dumbarton Oaks Library has some of these artifacts! Kanab has to be the place, since there is a definite relationship between the Aztecs and the snails! So, this begs the question: Did the Aztecs bring the snails to Utah or were the snails already inhabiting the lake?
    On a side note, if you come back to Utah, there is a story about Brewer's cave with strange little metal plates and tall mummies that have a Nordic zeal. Keep up the amazing work my friend!

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    1. Utah Dave,

      I did hear about the Aztec's veneration of this particular snail and they were the ones who brought it to Utah. Hard to know for sure, but they are on the endangered list and we had to be careful anytime we were along the shore of that pond.

      Didn't step on any that I saw!

      Delete
  5. Good one Scott. You're not one to be shy are you?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dAZfTjxuRo
    Pay special attention to some of the rock formations in this video.
    Is this a trick of mother nature like that of "Rock Wall" Texas or an attempt at a man made structure?
    I get the impression someone was trying to build a pyramid.

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  6. The drone video was really good and what I saw was a natural sandstone ridge formation that looked like it had been quarried by man in the past. Whoever did it appeared to have quarried a large square notch out of the triangle shaped ridge.

    Didn't look like a pyramid to me, but who knows what they built? Cool video.

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  7. Entertaining show. It really shows how difficult it is to do real exploration, especially underwater stuff. Few people understand how dangerous diving into silty conditions or even small caves really is. I've been on deep dives for a recreational diver (115 ft) and been into one small cave and it can be unnerving.

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  8. Hi Greg,

    If we had more days to film I would have tried again with lines, etc. Maybe we'll revisit that in the future.

    The deepest I ever dove was 145 feet on The Wall in Grand Cayman when I was in college. I got a little nitrogen narcosis and started sinking and didn't realize it because I was distracted looking at the coral and sea life on the vertical wall. Later on I realized how dangerous that was and haven't gone deeper than 100 feet since. As you know, the deeper you go the more complicated diving gets. Color goes away, your air gets used up faster, nitrogen builds up in your blood, it's a lot more dangerous.

    Unless you have a compelling reason to deep dive, stay shallow. Cave diving is whole different animal and its dangerous too.

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    1. If it's superstition related to past accidents that prevents the land owner from allowing drilling, maybe it can be cured with a placebo. Like for example getting a medicine man do a rain dance on the spot.

      Some people do "exorcisms" on houses so why not on treasures as well. Anything that the land owners would trust in to remove the curse will do, whether it's Batman or a priest.

      Delete
    2. Teppo,

      You make a good point about having the site "cleansed" of bad spirits or whatever to alleviate Lon's concerns. He was pretty adamant however, so I'm not sure that will work. The untimely death of the driller really shook he and his family up.

      Drilling the site is by the far the most logical and safest way to determine if there are caves below those cliffs and the pond.

      Delete
  9. makes my megaliths and petroglyphs on the Laurentian Divide seem pretty tame. Found a site can hurt you anytime, Especially if you get excited as you near the goal. chb

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  10. Looking at the petroglyph on Montezuma's Gold and knowing that the Aztec's practiced human sacrifice could it be that the channel that ran off to one side was a channel to collect blood. Thank you for thought provoking programmes.

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  11. Eamonn,

    That's an interesting thought; especially considering the Aztecs probably performed sacrifices at the top of their temples. In this case, it would have been at the top of cliff?

    Who knows; you might be right?

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  12. Going on 30 shows now and you still haven't found a single thing you've looked for in any of the episodes. No giant skeletons, no Lost Dutchman mine, no ancient American copper in Europe, no Sinclair treasure, no Menehune, etc., etc.

    I like the idea of the show, but I personally need more than just your opinion of what the total lack of evidence resultant from every single one of your explorations could mean.

    If the history we've been taught is wrong (like you continuously tell us), could you please explain how your consistent lack of meaningful discovery adds to our overall understanding of the truthfulness of history?

    Tim J.

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    1. Tim,

      With all due respect, I think you're using selective memory to try and make your point. Do you not consider the following to be significant discoveries; the authenticity of the Kensington Rune Stone, Newport Tower alignments, Bat Creek Stone, Tucson Lead Artifacts, Newark Holy Stones and the megalithic yard in Washington D.C.? These are all huge discoveries that alter the established history profoundly.

      And what about the discoveries that didn't support Old World contact such as the Rock Wall in Texas or the recently aired Judaculla and Red Bird petroglyphs being Cherokee? Nobody would have liked these to be related to Old World cultures more than me, but we drew a conclusion regardless of who might be disappointed.

      Further, we did make a connection between Old World Bronze Age copper and a sample of copper from the Upper Peninsula, or did you not catch that? (I'm not trying to be a smartass here).

      The other thing you seem to be missing or failing to fully appreciate are the previously unknown, or little known pieces of evidence we reveal on the show that sometimes does, and sometimes doesn't allow me to reach a conclusion. Unfortunately, not every investigation results in a definitive conclusion, but that's the way forensic science works.

      Believe me, I'd love to make world changing discoveries on every episode, but that's not going to happen. Again, with all due respect, to say that we haven't reached definitive conclusions or made important historical discoveries means you haven't been paying close enough attention.

      On the other hand, what is important and meaningful is up to the individual. Maybe you'll be more impressed in the episodes yet to come?

      Delete
  13. I always wondered about that snail. Its the only place in the USA where its found and that is an artificial lake. Hummmmm. Right off the top, why is that snail not found in other sinks or wells around there. Since all those tunnels, pits, and caves are human worked and then filled with water, which in this drought, is something else all together. I'm going to try and get that paper about the snail and the Aztecs gold jewelry. Think of it. What were the Aztecs doing in central Mexico with a "one of a kind location" snail in Utah. Just a thought and take a deep breath. .

    As far as the other "anonymous" is concerned about "not" finding anything. Maybe he's not looking at what your really showing. These myths and legends didn't just come out of nowhere. And, of course, he probably missed the "lead cross" showing. There is a whole another story.

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    1. Dave,

      The snail thing was just a little too convenient for me, and at every turn there was an obstacle. Was it a curse? I personally don't think so, but we really did give it our best effort.

      In the case of the unimpressed blog poster named Tim, I think people watching the show often get too focused on and their hopes up on the big, well-known prizes like the Lost Dutchman, Montezuma's Treasure and the Ark of the Covenant. I didn't get my hopes up too high that I would find them, but I thought it was worth a try.

      The reason is every time I go searching for something I always learn something new that may not result in a major discovery at that time, but it almost always leads to something else significant down the road.

      I'm sure the audience has noticed how various aspects of earlier episodes are starting to connect with later ones. I'm confident this journey of discovery we're currently on will lead to something truly profound.

      We just have to keep pressing on and I can assure you that I will.

      Delete
  14. I'm going to go out on the edge of a cliff here but this is just for "discussion". If a person looks at the maps you will see the following

    1) Horse Stone --- 3 dots and circles
    2) Witch Stone --- 2 dots and circles
    3) Heart Map --- 2 dots and circles
    4) Heart Stone --- 1 dot and circle
    5) Cross Map --- 1 dot and circle (very faint to the upper left of cross)

    Why so many of these circles. I haven't found any reference yet (haven't read the books - will order though) to these EXCEPT and just EXCEPT for discussion on the book by Laurence Gardner (The Shadow of Solomon).

    found in the "introduction", page xxii, the following quote

    "there are many allegorical glyphs and symbols used in Freemasonry; some are well known, others are not. But of all these, the most potent is among the least familiar to outsiders - a point within a circle........."

    Interesting that the "map maker" used a "circle and point" to mark the "treasure". Below is a link for your viewing pleasure. What is missing are the two lines but they are NOT always used.

    http://wsmag.org/AUG2014/Be_The_Point_Within_The_Circle.pdf

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  15. Scott,
    First, thank you for your endeavors. I too enjoy the show and watch weekly.

    A quotation taken from a White House booklet published in 1958, The Introduction To Outer Space produced in an effort to garner support for a national space program in the wake of the Sputnik flight, read on its first page:

    "The first of these factors is the compelling urge of man to explore and to discover, the thrust of curiosity that leads men to try to go where no one has gone before. Most of the surface of the earth has now been explored and men now turn on the exploration of outer space as their next objective.

    While I do believe in space exploration, there is just so much more here on planet earth that needs our attention. Most of the earth's surface has "not" been explored.

    If the premise for the show was just to raise awareness of ancient civilizations in America before Columbus, I believe most of us agree there had to be explorations and populations before Columbus. You have brought to our attention the KRS, the Bat Creek Stone, the Newport Tower, the Rock Wall in Rockwall and many more. We the viewer undeniably need more information on these discoveries. As the hour of your show concludes, we the viewer sit at the edges of couches wanting more. We need not only folklore, legend or hearsay, we need Scott to give us discovery. Tangible discovery. Folklore, legends and hearsay came from somewhere. Whereas I truly understand that not every show will give us a discovery, yet I want Scott to go the distance.
    On most of your shows we feel like you take us three quarters of the journey and then you stop.
    Opinions, I am sure you hear many day after day, good and bad. I am just a simple man in small town America. I talk amongst friends who also watch your show religiously and we all think alike. Your show is like a awesome book you can't put down yet the book is missing the dramatic conclusion. If you can't enter a cave, have the tools with you that can. If you can't drain a pond because of snails, have the tools and people that can go the distance under water until we as the viewer can see Scott has done all he can do or there's nothing found during that exploration.
    Your viewers are cheering you on. We want you to find Montezuma's Treasure, The Lost Dutchman's Mine, tangible proof of giants, Vikings, and Templars here on our soil.
    As Joe Friday said on Dragnet, "Just the facts, ma'am" that is what most of us that watch your show desire.
    Whether it be a man's curiosity to find giants, a treasure on Oak Island, or even a man's desire to rewrite history as we know it today, we are pulling for you to do this for us. Despite your critics, some of us believe in you. We desire to read that complete book that has a dramatic conclusion...

    Blessings
    Mark DePayan

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    1. Scott WolterDecember 2, 2014 at 10:48 AM

      Mark,

      I really do appreciate your comments, especially since they truly seem to be sincere. We really try to make the show in a way so the viewer does feel like they go along with me on these incredible adventures.

      I think we all have to keep in mind is that I'm not going to hit a home run in every at-bat. We need to appreciate the "double's" and "single's" between the few strikeouts, and how they turn into "runs" if we get enough "hits." We've hit a few "homers" as you've mentioned (KRS, Bat Creek, etc.), but what we're all waiting for is the Grand Slam in the World Series.

      I believe the playoffs are just starting and I've taken lots of batting practice. I'm confident you'll see some solid swings before this season is over, and if we make it to the World Series (another season of shows), I like our chances of hitting a few big homers.

      I apologize for all the baseball metaphors, but I don't want to tip my hand too much.

      Delete
  16. I found this interesting and thought your readers would too,
    Thanks Scott !
    http://utahtreasure.blogspot.com/2010/12/johnson-canyon.html?m=1

    Mark

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    1. The part about the geese having to vomit was the funniest ever. The gov can't fine the geese "so they better cough'em up".

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    2. "bonuntr" says in the last comments of that website that his friend tried drilling into the chamber last year (2013) but failed, and will try again this year. Seems that the 'chamber' means this same one. But didn't Lon Child say they didn't want any more drilling after the death which was many years ago? I don't think Child mentioned any other drilling attempts.

      Delete
    3. Teppo,

      Lon made it clear to me he didn't want any more drilling. He also made it clear it had everything to do with the curse. I don't believe there's a curse, but it's his land and it's his call.

      Frustrating for me, but maybe this other guy will have better luck with Lon?

      Delete
    4. Why has no one tossed a go pro down there or a miniature rover. With the technology to send a rover to space and get hd video and pictures I'm pretty sure someone can make one for less than acouple hundred bucks to go down the original drill site. If they saw something with a camera before why not use better smaller more high tech cameras to get better image now? Strap a go pro to a quadra copter and lower it down or a remote control car?

      Delete
    5. Has anyone put a go pro on a rope wih a high power flashlight and sent it down the original hole?

      Delete
  17. Hello Scott ! I really enjoy your show and your objectivity. I noticed something several days ago that has been nagging at me to mention to you that may help you in your quest for answers and if nothing else may give you a pause for contemplation. I recorded some of your episodes on my DVR and noticed a interesting correlation between some symbols. The episodes Montezuma's Gold and Lost Relics of the Bible have the identical oval with the line running through and out of the oval and the symbol 3rd line down and 4th from the end in the Bat Creek Stone info box depicting the ancient Hebrew symbols. I also find it interesting that the government is pushing to make this area off limits to the public and making it a conservation area where they will kick families off their land. I find it a bit fishy that they put such a steep 50k fine on snails when so many other endangered species with a larger environmental impact have lesser fines levied. I have some theories here as well you may have on this subject. I think you were standing and swimming very close to some treasure at that lake and some may be worth more than all that gold being Holy relics. I would really try to explore that area again before government takes control if I were you. Any thoughts on this?

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  18. Don't know why the government might kick someone off their land in this case... Unless they thought there was tangible treasure it could somehow claim. I wouldn't put it past any country's government to claim historical treasure on the auspices of, "it doesn't belong to anyone, it belongs to everyone" so we'll take it.

    That could be what's going on.

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  19. Hello Scott. Thank you for your reply in such a timely manner. My biggest question was the matching symbols. I wondered how such diverse cultures could share the same design and if there was some kind of overlap. Judging from your shadows during filming if it was morning when the sun was rising from the east the oval was on the northern or top side of the symbol as was the Hebrew symbol, if it was afternoon then it would be the southern or bottom end. Your drawing showed a sideways version of the symbol and I am curious if that makes any difference in the origin of the symbol. I am fascinated so my curiosity is piqued. Sorry if I came across as a conspiracy theorist. I have just come to question a lot that I have learned in the past after watching H2 and the History channel along with some research. But I would appreciate your thoughts on the similarities between the Aztec and ancient Hebrew symbol.

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  20. The only thing I can say about the similarities it they likely had a common origin. That common origin could be their use as ancient method of using the symbols, the sun and a stick to determine latitude. It's simple and works very well.

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  21. Earlier in this thread you referenced the Newark Holy Stones. Could you please tell me when & where they were located & if they are on public display?

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  22. Louise,

    This is probably the most balanced article on the stones. It is written by Hu McCulloch whom I trust to be unbiased in his analysis.

    http://www.econ.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/decalog.html

    They were on public display when I looked at them in 2013 at:
    Johnson Humrickhouse Museum
    300 N Whitewoman St Coshocton, Ohio 43812
    (740) 622 - 8710
    jhmuseum.org

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    1. Thank you Scott, I gew up near Coshocton & will stop and see them on my next trip home.

      Delete
  23. Mr. Wolter,
    It's been a terribly busy week and just tonight I was finally able to finish my DVR'd "America Unearthed" about Montezuma's treasure. Wonderful episode. Fantastic. (Mostly. Being claustrophobic I got uneasy during the dive scene, but I was still on the edge of my seat.)

    Now, you never mentioned this possibility, but I'm sure you're aware of it, and that is that the carving on the stone was perhaps more than a latitude marker, but of a more sinister nature: blood drainage. As soon as I saw the channel gouged into the rock -- suddenly deeper and longer, perfect for facilitating runoff -- it hit me like a brick. I recall reading about the Aztecs years ago and seeing an accompanying photo of an altar presumably used for human sacrifice with similarly designed channels.

    Just a thought.

    -Jimmy-

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  24. Jimmy,

    Somebody else mentioned the idea of a blood drain for sacrifice which is certainly possible. It's also a very high cliff overlooking a vast and beautiful area.

    Why not?

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  25. http://stonestructures.org/html/groovedstones.html#Lye

    Here are some examples of the "symbol" being used for drainage for another reason...making soap. But, Scott, this symbol shows up, twice, on the symbol side of the Spirit Pond Amulet (as seen on page 79 in your "Hooked X" book, and in this case it almost looks like a number rune, kind of like on the opposite page, 78, but with slightly shorter stems). Except for the cross, most of the symbols seem like they could be rune numbers of one kind or another on that amulet. Just guessing.

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  26. Every time I'm in the area of Monte's well I want to go see it and never do. One of these days I will.
    The ROV sub was cool. You should try that at Rock Lake Wi.
    You should take that ROV to Oak Island and let the Lagina's search the "pit" for the water inlets.

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    1. The ROV was cool and might work well at Rock Lake; especially in the early spring after the ice goes out. It would probably work well for the boys at Oak Island, but you won't see me there in the foreseeable future.

      Delete
  27. Custer's lost treasure is a good one. But what makes you think twomoon's "treasure" is the gold coins Custer had? Why would Custer take them to battle?
    How is Merv Griffin connected (loosely) to the battle at bighorn? One of his regular guests was an Indian chief who was the grandson of twomoon and was 10 years old then. He watched the battle from one of the hilltops.

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    1. You should read my post on last night's episode that I recently uploaded. I wrote about how after talking with the military men in the cavalry reenactment and descendants of the natives who defeated Custer and what their input was.

      I think you'll probably agree with what I wrote.

      Delete
  28. Scott,

    The Spanish arrived in Mexico in 1518, less than 500 years ago. Montezuma had no reason to fear for the safety of his treasure until after the Spanish arrived and became a serious threat to the Aztec.

    An expert named Shaffer told you on camera that the lichen growing in one of the symbols was more than 500 years ago. He is correct, then, that symbol was not created in connection with hiding Montezuma's gold (which no one has yet proven is hidden in Utah). And if that particular was not, then there is no reason I am aware of to believe that any of the symbols were created in connection with hiding Montezuma's gold.

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  29. Harry,

    First, Steve's estimate was approximate and it's been 496 years since the Spanish arrived which is close enough for me. I think you're being a little rigid with the numbers. Having said that, we don't know for certain if that petroglyph is connected to the Aztec's or Montezuma's Treasure. It could be of Native American origin, but I'm not inclined to think so.

    With all due respect I'm going to disagree with you and say that the symbol still could be connected, we just don't know for certain.

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  30. Scott,

    Thanks for your reply. I assumed that "more than 500 years" is an approximation, but not one that includes "less than 500 years" (I presumed it was more likely something like a range of 525-575 or even 550-625 years, for instance). When I initially wrote my first post above, I intended to write "If he is correct, then, that symbol was not created in connection with hiding Montezuma's gold..." If the lichen began growing 496 years ago, then it is not correct to say that it is more than 500 years old, any more than it is accurate to say that 9/11 happened more than 15 years ago.

    Of course, Shaffer is not infallible. But I have no alternative basis for knowing how old that lichen really is, but I doubt that you do, either (if I am wrong, please explain how you would know). If you want to disregard Shaffer's opinion - which is, essentially, that the lichen predates the Spanish invasion of Mexico - then you cannot make any conclusions about the age of the symbol based on the age of the lichen.

    When you say that you are not inclined to think that the symbols are of "Native American origin," I take it that you mean native to the US, since Aztecs are Native American in a broader sense. That said, do you have any real evidence that the symbols are not of local Native American origin, or is that merely an assumption?

    Thank you in advance for your next reply.

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  31. Harry,

    I understand your confusion, but I took Steve's comment to mean about 500 years. As you probably know, C-14 dating gives a range of plus or minus a certain number of years. I did not see any test results so I can't comment any more on that.

    My comment was based on experience and a gut feeling that's all. Even if I'm right it doesn't mean the symbol was carved by the Aztec's, or the Spanish for that matter. It just doesn't look like the voluminous Native American petroglyphs I've seen that rarely if ever are found as an isolated symbol like that one.

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  32. Scott,
    I love history and usually enjoy the show. However, I wish there were follow ups or true conclusions to episodes. Some of the episode are left as an open book. I'm still guessing. You mentioned the underwater cave, possibly the way to Montezumas treasue, being blocked with silt. That was it, no heavy duty pumps ect... why is this the case some times? Do you get to the bottom of these mysteries? Or do you remain guessing as I?
    Thanks. Ben

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  33. Scott,
    I love history and usually enjoy the show. However, I wish there were follow ups or true conclusions to episodes. Some of the episode are left as an open book. I'm still guessing. You mentioned the underwater cave, possibly the way to Montezumas treasue, being blocked with silt. That was it, no heavy duty pumps ect... why is this the case some times? Do you get to the bottom of these mysteries? Or do you remain guessing as I?
    Thanks. Ben

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  34. Ben,

    I would love to do follow-ups on many of the stories we've looked into. there's a good chance that might happen and if so, Taking another crack at the underwater cave is right up there on my list!

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  35. Hi Scott, I just finished watching the episode of the Egyptian Obelisk and being fascinated I researched a little bit. I found a website Forgotten New York "Mystery of the Obelisks" that said the Emmet Obelisk has faint carvings in it relative to the coordinates of 40 deg 42' 40'N 74 Deg 03'21' W and the guy says his GPS reads
    40 Deg 42'40'N 74Deg 00'33W. He states it could be a error on behalf of the stone mason. Could this be the slight deviation in the straight line course you first thought of? Thanks for the show.

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  36. Hi John,

    Not sure if it's a clue to the Orion's Belt Obelisk alignment, but it sounds like a clue to something?

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  37. Have you ever examined the Coso Rock Art District covering 99 sq miles with over 50,000 documented petroglyphs? It is located on the China Lake Naval Weapons Base; tours from the Ridgecrest Museum provide access to the main canyon holding thousands of petroglyphs on their tours publicly available in the spring and fall.

    Whatever your legitimate academic qualifications, your showmanship brings light to man-created and natural curiosities.

    The basis for this preamble is my question about the superior figures on many of the canyon walls, above the depictions of daily life and seasonal occurrences. Those figures have a decidedly alien appearance, at least viewed from a present perspective. Do you have any findings about these figures to the people who carved them in the cliffs about 10,000 years ago, or would you thing about embarking on an up-close examination in the near future?

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  38. Joan,

    I have not seen the Coso Rock petroglyphs, but I'm sure they are amazing. The figures you reference could also be depictions of Gods or mythological spirits. The best way to get insight would be to approach the local native tribes. They should know something about the images if it was their people who made them in the past. They usually have oral stories about significant sites.

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  39. This lake is guarded by a snail,what a joke.It is a coverup to stop your investigation.I believe in your work and I enjoy watching your program.

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  40. The cards were stacked against us in that lake; some say the Aztecs brought the snail with them as it was sacred to them. That's a little too convenient for me, but wherever it came from it thwarted me.

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  41. Open ROV was pretty cool but I think a tailor made system would for sure be able to get to the "bottom" of all these super hard to reach spots on the show.

    Customized ROV systems can be developed for exploring these cave systems underwater and above ground. There are way to get robotics deployed in these hard (nearly impossible) to reach locations with a little creativity... and some extra funding of course. Would love to see more robotics involved. The bots could be the key to a new era in Archaeology.

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  42. I agree wholeheartedly ROV can revolutionize underwater archaeology. I'm sure the archy's are on it. By far the best sites are underwater along all of our coastlines.

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  43. I posted that ROV comment above :)

    Indeed one could probably do an entirely separate show on robotics exploring undersea sites. I think in the next 3-5 years there will be a revolution in cheaper bots that can autonomously "swarm" over sites (say in the Great Lakes perhaps near the copper mines) to survey and detect buried artifacts.

    It's an exciting field because it combines engineering with archaeology. Especially useful in places that are too expensive or hard to reach for humans.

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  44. It seemed kind of funny as an archaeologist and you sat on the large rock with the petroglyph of the oval with a channel running through it and talking about Aztec's and human sacrifice that you were probably sitting on a sacrificial stone..bloods gotta run somewhere.Rick

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  45. Rick,

    We discussed that possibility and you just might be right. There are many of those kinds of carvings out there and we should have run a simple test by poring water in it to see if it drained out.

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    1. I've been to that site.... No one's going into that cave...there are other water ways underground to the east towards lake Powell.

      Further east there is a large cave that is in a wide canyon, it was discovered by a Ute war chief that had packs sewn together with rawhide..

      They had large gold coins with some alloy smelted in, strange hyroglyphics engraved in them..

      They were shared with a pioneer resident in southern Utah... He gave his opinion about a legend he had heard of, and noted that each Ute warrior carried one of these coins with him.


      Aztecs come from the Utah territory... The speak Nahautle.. Utes spoke UtoAztecan language and had a rich history of commerce in Mexico.

      I have a lot of info about this area.

      Live the show, it helps my own research.


      Thanks for your work Scott.

      Jedediah

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  46. Scott don't you think the water pit idea to hide treasure a bit far fetched? Why would they create a pond in the middle of the desert mountains to hide the treasure when everybody who would travel for miles and miles around would use that water pit as a life source during that time?

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