Wednesday, November 16, 2016

Oak Island 1179 Map


Last night on the season opening episode of History's "Oak Island" they showed an interesting map of what purports to be Nova Scotia that is dated in Roman Numbers in the upper right corner to 1179.  The person who brought the map to the production company's attention is a friend named Zena Halpern, who was featured in the show in a phone call.  Zena and I, and this map, go back about 10 years when Zena first brought it to my attention in late 2008.  What I'd like to do in this blog post is make clear a few facts about this map and be open to questions.   

Before going any further, people need to understand this map is clearly a copy drawn on modern paper that at best, likely dates back to the late 1700's.  Keep in mind this is a picture, or a copy, of the original.  It could also be a second or third generation of a copy of the original, we simply don't know.  This will no doubt lead skeptics to dismiss the map and it's obvious connection to the Knights Templar having been in North America over three hundred years before Columbus.

What first caught my attention were the two Hooked X's that appear on the map; one in the third X (Roman number 10) in the date in the upper right hand corner, and in the number 45 (XLV) just above the word "Nord" (North) on the center, right side of the map.  The important thing is these two Hooked X's on the map appeared before I published my book, The Hooked X: Key to the Secret History of North America, in 2009.  Prior to this, no one could have known of the direct connection I made of this symbol to the Knights Templar.  In the book, I proposed the Kensington Rune Stone, with 22 Hooked X's, was a land claim placed by a party of Knights Templar traveling with a least one highly initiated Cistercian monk who likely authored the inscription.  The presence of these two Hooked X's on this map, three years before my book was published, is powerful evidence consistent with a connection to the Templar's.

Another prominent feature of the map are numerous vertical lines, with Roman Numbers, that appear to indicate longitude.  Skeptics are sure to complain that longitude was unknown in 1179 and argue it can't be an authentic map.  I maintain the opposite could be true and the map appears to indicate that longitude was indeed known and was likely was part of secret knowledge known by the Templar's. 

Zena graciously allowed me to publish part of this map in my latest book, Akhenaten to the Founding Fathers: The Mysteries of the Hooked X.  Now that the complete map has been published on the show there is a lot more to talk about.  You can be sure the Lagina brothers, and Zena, will have more to say on upcoming episodes of the show.  There will also be more about Zena's research in her forthcoming book which should be published in the next six months.    


256 comments:

  1. Hi Scott,

    Been a while since I posted anything, but I must say I found last nights show to be interesting. The maps really got my curiosity flowing. Oak Island is such a fascinating subject.

    The well they visited... wasn't that in one of your shows a few years ago??

    TD Bauer
    Hudson WI

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    Replies
    1. TD Bauer,

      Yes, it was the exact well. You might recall we sent a diver down and then drained the well and I was lowered down. It was a fun episode for sure.

      Delete
    2. Now they found a hooked X as well

      Delete
    3. Unknown,

      Actually, I don't think they did.

      Delete
  2. What is the exact original source of the map? What is the chain of custody of the map since original provenance? What experts have viewed the map? What testing has been done on the map? What studies based on the provenance, custody, expert analysis, and testing, have been published about the map?

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    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      These questions will be addressed in Zena's book. However, there has been some work done and the provenance is quite complicated and not "clean" by any means. That being said, from my perspective,the presence of the Hooked X in two meaningful places (the date and Prime latitude) and not on every Roman Numeral ten on the map is very interesting. It says something about the knowledge the person had who made the original.

      This begs the question, what experts are there that know anything about a map from this time with longitude values and Hooked X's? There are none. My experience is when experts don't have a clue what to do, they dismiss.

      As I said above, the only thing that's been published about this map is in my 2013 "Akhenaten" book.

      Delete
    2. Could Oak Island be a ship dry dock,to repair and replenish their ships. The swamp in my opinion,could have been used for this purpose. One of the maps I saw showed valves and hatches. Was this part of a system to fill and empty the swamp. It would also explain why the oak trees were planted there. Materials for needed repairs. They have found a deck nail and planking. Items you would find in a dry dock. I have never heard of anybody discovering something like what I described,but it makes sense that there had to be somewhere that they could do this. Early explorers would have needed to have somewhere to replenish and repair. Would like to get your opinion on this theory. Thank you Larry

      Delete
    3. Larry,

      My understanding is the swamp was created in modern times when the road was put in back in the 1930's. I might have that wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's a modern creation.

      It's possible that area of the island was used for a dry dock, but I'm not aware of any evidence to support that.

      Delete
    4. Larry,

      1. The swamp is natural.
      2. Oak trees are indigenous to the island. They were not planted.
      3. The 'deck nail' is really a railroad spike.
      4. The plank they found is too small to be a piece of decking.

      Delete
  3. Hey Scott, isn't that also a hooked x in the word "six" on the left center of the map?

    Rich
    Cincinnati, OH

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    Replies
    1. Rich,

      You know what; it might be? It's a little different than the other two, but it's definitely an added line on the upper right arm. Perhaps the person who made this copy didn't get the Hooked X quite right.

      Good catch!

      Delete
    2. Has any ground penetrating radar been attempted on the Island?
      Mike Bellamy

      Delete
    3. Mike,

      I can assume that GPR has been used on the island, likely many times. However, I do not know for sure.

      Delete
  4. Hi Scott,
    First of all, thank you for all of your shows. I have watched them with great interest. That map shared on Oak Island last night was without a doubt the high point of the show. It will be so profoundly cool to see your work and research come together with all the investigative digs on the island. I have a strong feeling it will. Can't wait for your next book.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pat P,

      Thanks; I'm glad you enjoyed them. The funny thing is I've known about that map for a decade and only now was Zena comfortable sharing the complete map. Don't think it's going to help the brothers much, but breathe much new life to the story of the Templar's many trips to the New World from the 12th to the 15th centuries.

      They were frequently coming over here, very quietly, during medieval times. Just because they didn't tell anyone doesn't mean it didn't happen.

      Delete
  5. Scott, I hope you will continue to do follow ups to the oak island shows as it seems they will continue to pursue the map and well which correlates with your work. Some previews have showed a rock with a hooked x and a circle chevron rock from the well. Would love to hear your thoughts as they come in! They need to get you on the show!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. David,

      The rock they showed in the previews was not a legitimate Hooked X. It was a prop made to entice followers of America Unearthed and our other Templar related shows to watch Oak Island.

      They don't need my help; I'm working on something that is a lot more exciting IMHO. I greatly appreciate the support, but the brothers got this one just fine.

      Delete
    2. yes any way scott you already did a piece on oak island and said there was nothing there. well let the brothers prove it.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous,

      Don't get me wrong; I'd love to see the brothers find something. I just don't think the Templars would leave their greatest treasure laying around to this day.

      They recovered it long ago.

      Delete
    4. Gotta ask - What are you working on?

      Delete
    5. Hi Audrey,

      Thanks for asking, but unfortunately I can't go into any details yet. Let me just say the current project is grander and more important than anything I've done yet.

      Stay tuned.

      Delete
  6. Me. Wolters,

    Do any of the symbols used in the Oak Island code match any symbols found on any of the American Runestones?

    Dan Uhrich

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    Replies
    1. Dan,

      I haven't looked very closely at that, but I'm very familiar with the runes and symbols on the five North American Rune Stones and I didn't see anything in the cipher they had on the show that looked even remotely similar.

      However, I have seen Masonic ciphers that had the same symbols.

      Delete
  7. I noted you said that the hooked x on the map came before your book, true to a point. You were lecturing on the hooked X before this.. such as at the NEARA conference.

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    1. Anonymous,

      Prior to 2008 I only made general statements about the Hooked X being used for the "a" sound within the KRS, Spirit Pond and Narragansett Rune Stone inscriptions. That had been known on the KRS for over a century by then. I never mentioned them being used on a map or in a Roman Number. The first time I saw it used in this context was on this map.

      Based on what I know about the history of where this map came from the earliest it could have been map was prior to the discovery of the Spirit Pond Rune Stones, but I'll let that play out on the show. A forger would have no reason to include the Hooked X, let alone in the proper context.

      This is unique and adds powerful evidence of a connection with the medieval Templars.

      Delete
  8. Hi Scott
    I have a couple of questions. Do you happen to know if the name New Ross is a corruption of New Rosslyn?
    The second question is more long-winded. I have read many theories concerning Oak Island over the years and last nights show reminded me of a book I read some time ago that I'm sure spoke of this New Ross 'Templar castle' and that it was sited where it was because it overlooked -or was equidistant between - two oak islands that were connected by some sort of tunnel-based water trap that would shuttle any treasure trove from one island to the other if one should be opened. Does this ring any bells?

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    Replies
    1. Redwel,

      I think it could very well be a corruption of New Rosslyn. I also find it interesting that there is a neighborhood on the west side of the National Mall in Washington, D.C., called Rosslyn.

      As far as your second question, I’ve heard all kinds of theories about New Ross and tunnels, treasure, water traps, etc. What doesn’t make sense to me is if the Templar’s brought treasure over with Prince Henry, why the need for water traps and tunnels? The natives wouldn’t care about treasure so who would they have been worried about to go to such lengths in 1398? The whole idea of tunnels and water traps doesn’t make any sense in this context. Just dig a hole and bury it.

      Delete
    2. I think they would have gone to great measures to hide and protect the 'treasure' only if the treasure was something incredibly. Would they do that to hide gold and jewels? Probably not. Would they go that far as to create traps if the treasure they were hiding was known to likely be sought after by a Church that had scorned them, or enemies public and private? Possibly.

      They certainly found something digging under Solomon's Temple that empowered them very quickly within the Church. Had to be more than just gold and riches. It had to be something that could elevate their social standing and political power. Such an item or items would be worth hiding surrounded by traps and layers upon layers of mystery.

      Delete
    3. TD,

      I completely agree the Templar Treasure is more than just gold and silver riches. It's a safe bet it includes important religious relics and who knows what else.

      The only reason I disagree with the booby traps and Indiana Jones style of protecting the treasures is because none of it would be necessary if your nemesis doesn't know where it is. Once they located it, eventually they would dig around booby traps, sacrifice people and do whatever was necessary until they got what they wanted.

      If you're right the treasure includes religious relics like the Ark of the Covenant, all the booby traps in the world won't stop the Church from getting what they want.

      Delete
    4. The village of New Ross, NS was named after Constantine Phipps, Baron Mulgrave of New Ross (Ireland).

      Delete
    5. The Ross Lynn neighborhood in Arlington, Va, is named after the original farm that was there: Ross Lynn. It has nothing to do with Any conspiracy theory.

      Delete
    6. Elux Troxl,

      I can assure you that none of this is a coincidence my friend.

      Delete
  9. In modern notation, Oak Island is 64 degrees 17 minutes west of Greenwich. On the map, the numerical value of West Longitude (LXVI-something; 66-ish degrees) suggests a Prime Meridian near Paris, or alternatively in the Eastern Atlas Mountains. What do you make of that?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Anonymous,

      It makes sense to me the Templar's wouldn't use Greenwich as their Prime Meridian in 1179. What they actually used for their prime meridian I don't know, but something on or near Paris makes sense.

      Delete
    2. There's some kind of mathematical "correction" with the Latitude too. Oak Island is 44.5 degrees from the Equator, and 45.5 degrees from the Pole, neither of which corresponds straightforwardly to the XLVI XLVII on the map. Even if the map is a "fake" it would seem to include an intriguing riddle in these longitude and latitude Romal Numerals.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous,

      I agree the Roman Numbers seem off from what we know about latitude and longitude today. If the map is genuine then there must be an explanation for it.

      Delete
    4. During the second century AD the prime meridian was through the Canary Islands, before that, in BC times it was through Alexandria. http://zeehaen.tripod.com/unpub_2/multitude_meridians.htm

      Delete
    5. I haven't finished reading all the comments, but no one yet has mentioned that longitude and latitude were not commonly used due to the lack of an accurate clock. From what I understand, the ability to use them at sea didn't arrive until the 1700s. In my opinion, it put a lot of doubt on that map when I first viewed the episode, but Mr. Wolter's comment about it being a copy helped slightly... not completely. I so would love to believe, but I can't help but be skeptical.

      Delete
    6. Anonymous,

      You should read more as you'll learn there are more maps, artifacts and documentation that has yet to be made public. Once you have all the data you'll be in a better position to draw a conclusion.

      For me, the Hooked X's on the maps and other places you haven't seen yet, are very convincing. Conclusive? Not quite yet for me.

      Delete
    7. Thank you. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I tend to believe as you do. If there was anything there, it's long gone. I think the real treasure will be finding out who was on the island - be it Vikings, Templars, or pirates. Finding man-made engineering dating prior to the 17th century would be a success for the brothers even without gold. I just wish the History Channel would not throw in props and other things to made people feel like they're being duped. There is still a fascinating story there, regardless of any treasure. Let's find out who it was definitively. Thanks again for your input. I'll keep at it!

      Delete
    8. Anonymous,

      There most certainly is more to the story, but the brothers won't find it. Stay tuned as we'll have a lot more to say about Oak Island and the other places pre-Columbian Templars went in the "Western Lands."

      Delete
  10. What strikes me about this map purported to be a copy of other maps leading back to 1179, is that it is not written in runes, but in French, which does show copying from another source, because of also undergoing a translation. I say this because it is pretty well known that Scandinavians founded Vinland, the area revealed in the map, and so the prior knowledge of the map, and probably the origination--if it is authentic--would have originally been from Norsemen, of course, not from Frenchmen.

    What the map, to me, seems to be showing is the northern region of a greater area known as Vinland the Good. Note that "Meadows Cove," Newfoundland would be north, off the map, which shows that Meadows Cove was meant as a ship refurbishing station, most likely for ships than sailing southward farther into greater Vinland, which may have extended quite far south.

    I believe this much mapping knowledge was definitely at hand back in 1179, since Vinland would have been visited off and on by Norsemen for nearly two hundred years by this time, since Vinland's founding around AD 1000. According to Norse Sagas, Bishop Erik from Greenland had supposedly visited Vinland back as early as 1121.

    By extrapolation, if this much mapping knowledge was known and available back stemming from 1179, what other mapping knowledge (lost) may have also existed from the same time, centered around Hudson Bay and southward...dropping down southward by a couple of rivers (Red, and Nelson), down, down into this upper Midwest zone where so many Norse evidences show up.

    It makes good sense that mapping would have once existed also showing this area where not one, but likely several Norse expeditions took place, based on fairly widespread evidences found in this area just west of where the KRS was found...some of these evidences shown in your Hooked-X book (which got me hooked).

    Anyway, if this map is genuine, though copied down in time, it may as well be a map of Vinland, in my view. Of course, the weather was much nicer back in 1179 than it became by the 14th century, so that wild grapes were in great supply, as were both butternuts and salmon. What a paradise for those temporarily leaving a frozen land...well, except for the land was inhabited by natives, unlike back in Iceland, for instance, or in parts of Greenland, when Norsemen first arrived.

    - Gunn

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    1. One should also note that there is no existing evidence that Vikings ever mad a map of anything ever.

      Delete
    2. Elux Troxl,

      That statement doesn't even pass the smell test, "...ever made a map of anything ever." You're going to actually stand by that statement?What about the Vinland Map? And don't bother trying to pass off the, "It's a forgery" line. There is no credible factual evidence. It's only crime is it doesn't fit the narrative.

      Delete
  11. Spent a few hours trying to get a feel for the accuracy of the longitude and latitude lines/values referenced to geographical landmarks shown on the map. This analysis doesn't "prove" anything related to the dating of the map, it merely produces a result that lets one objectively see how accurately the landform depiction is compared to the longitude/latitude values.
    ----
    There is some variance in the accuracy of the longitude lines on the C-doc map USING THE GREENWICH PRIME MERIDIAN:
    -67-20 line has an approximate 2 degree error [20 MINUTE];
    -64-20 line (northern) has an approximate 2 degree, 20 minute error [SPOT ON]
    -63-50 line has an approximate 3 degree, 50 minute error [1 DEGREE, 30 MINUTE];
    -58-20 line has an approximate 2 degree, 20 minute error [SPOT ON];
    -64-20 line (southern) has an approximate 2 degree error [20 MINUTE];
    -66-6 line has an approximate 3 degree error (using Shubenacadie Grand Lake as a fix) [30 MINUTE];
    -63-57 line has an approximate 30 minute error (eyeball guesstimated) [CAN’T REALLY FIX THIS ONE].

    When the Paris Prime Meridian correction of 2 degrees, 20 minutes is factored in, the longitude line variance decreases substantially [the value contained in brackets].

    There is some very minor variance in the latitude lines:
    -47-0 Newfoundland South line is VERY ACCURATE;
    -47-0 Nova Scotia North line is VERY ACCURATE;
    -49-0 line is probably a transcription error…it should probably be 46-30;
    -46-0 line is pretty accurate, appears to be offset to the south by 30 minutes;
    -45-15 line is also a fairly accurate line;
    -46-47 line might also be a transcription error.

    All in all, the map is fairly accurate.

    There are some other notable historical/geographical intersections on the map - we'll do a second post on that.

    Patrick submits

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    1. Patrick,

      Obviously you have some expertise in this arena and I suspect its much greater than mine. If the data on the map was perfect it would be more of a red flag to me than if there were an error or two. In any case, for the lat/long numbers to be relatively accurate for 1179, assuming it is authentic, says a lot about the person were made the original.

      Delete
    2. Oak Island coordinates on the Templar map are 46-47N. Oak Island coordinates today are 45-51N. Is it possible that large earthquakes could have caused part of this degree difference?

      Delete
    3. Kim,

      I don't think earthquakes would be the reason for the coordinate difference. I suspect they are either a mistake or the prime meridian for the Templar's on this map, at this time, was somewhere else.

      I'm not sure why there is this difference?

      Delete
  12. Scott,
    In the upper right corner situated between the Roman numeral value 37 and 1179 is a unique character set. Any ideas on what it might represent? Could you post a zoomed in picture of it, please?

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    1. Patrick,

      That symbol is more than likely a sigla made from the initials of the scribe who made the original map. The letters look like "C, "L" and "Y."

      Delete
  13. Scott,

    Any ideas about what happened to the numbers 1, 2, and 3 - which are missing from the map? The numbering sequence begins at 4 (quatre), includes 5 (cinq), and ends at 6 (six). Perhaps that is part of the story that Zena has yet to tell?

    On the right side of the map the circle, the “XLV 00” (45° north latitude), “LXXIV XVII ovest” (74°17’ west longitude), “le Vingt quatre de juin” (Twenty four of the June), and “XLV XV rhodon” (45°15’ north latitude, rose[line?]) labels are very interesting – something which you commented upon in your book.

    For starters, the longitude value of 74°17’ west translates to a location that is not even shown on this map. If we correct for the Paris Prime Meridian offset, we derive a present-day Greenwich longitude of 71°57’ west which drops us onto a meridian situated approximately 17 miles to the east of Owl’s Head Mountain in southern Quebec (roughly a 20’ longitude offset, or 1/3 of a degree). Why would someone place this longitude on a map whose closest depicted landform was situated over 350 miles to the east?

    Adding emphasis to this out-of-place longitude value is the 45°15’ north latitude, rose[line?]. While this latitude is local to what the map depicted, if one extends that latitude parallel further to the west, it also intersects the Owl’s Head Mountain area, passing to the north of the summit by approximately thirteen miles.

    In other words, it potentially suggests that the 45°15’ north latitude, rose[line] combined with the “LXXIV XVII ovest” (74°17’ west, corrected to 71°57’ west, longitude) is a geographic position coordinate.

    An alternate case of this would be to use the “XLV 00” (45° north latitude) vice the 45°15’ latitude. This latitude parallel runs slightly over five miles to the south of the summit of Owl’s Head Mountain.

    Why Owl’s Head Mountain?

    William Mann, in his book The Templar Meridians: The Secret Mapping of the New World, talked at length about how the Golden Rule Lodge No. 5 conducts “the 3rd degree of Masonry ritual” at the only outdoor Masonic Lodge Room at the summit of Owl’s Head Mountain every year on the 24th of June – which is St. John’s feast day.

    The 24th of June is also celebrated as Midsummer’s Eve, the time of the year in which the length of daylight is the longest and thus the nighttime darkness is the shortest. It is at this point that the setting Sun, after being at a virtual standstill at the same point at its northernmost point of travel on the horizon, begins to visibly move on its track back down to the south. It was a significant day – metaphorically - for ancient cultures who used the position of the Sun to symbolically represent the cycle of life, death, and rebirth.

    The “le Vingt quatre de juin” (Twenty four of the June) time stamp label is found on the C-document map grouped with the respective latitude and longitude components already discussed, so a plausible inference is they are somehow associated with each other.

    The Lake Memphremagog area, which is bisected by the 45°15’ north latitude parallel, has some unique structures, cairns, carvings, and discovered artifacts which professional archeologist Dr. Gerard Leduc has examined and catalogued and whose dating reaches back into the Pre-Columbian era. Entwined in these discoveries are suggestions that they are European in origin. One carving has been suggested to resemble the Sinclair family Coat of Arms (http://www.michaelbradley.info/grail/memphremagog.html).

    Continued on part 2...
    -------

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Patrick,

      Those numbers are in French, in a tight cluster at the end of the peninsula of the landmass labeled "Froid."

      Owl's Head Mountain is indeed a sacred place to Freemason's and also to Native Americans. You're definitely on the right track Pat, and so is Gerard Leduc. He's done some great work in the Lake Memphremagog area.

      And don't forget about the "Mystery Stone" found buried in clay along the shores of Lake Winnepesaukee. It figures into this mystery too.

      Delete
    2. Patrick and Scott,

      The Owl connection is very interesting. I've come across Owls in Gothic architecture made from two opposing Pinnacle Arches with a circle on each side. Seems to be some of the same union of Heaven and Earth symbolism. I believe the circles forming the eyes of the architectural Owl could represent the two Equinoxes. There's a few more examples but, the one which keeps jumping out is the ground plan around the Capitol. I suspect there are numerous layers to this symbolism.

      Scott,

      What is the "Mystery Stone"? Could you please provide a link?

      Best regards to both,

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    3. Anthony,

      Here's the link to the Mystery Stone which I wrote about in my book, "The Hooked X: Key to the Secret History of North America."

      http://www.ancient-origins.net/unexplained-phenomena/out-place-artifact-mysterious-stone-egg-lake-winnipesaukee-003622

      Delete
  14. Part 2...

    The 45°00 to 45°15’ north latitude values on the C-document map are unique in another aspect. It is within this latitude bracket that the length of darkness on the 24th of June in in the 14th and 15th centuries was equal to 8 hours and 22 minute’s duration.

    Today, given that the axial tilt of the Earth has another 500-700 years of cumulative movement, the duration of the nighttime darkness is now 8 hours and 23 minutes. As time moves further into the future and the Earth’s axial tilt continues to drive to its minimum value of 22.1° (at present it is 23.4371°) the duration of nighttime darkness on the 24th of June in the latitude bracket of 45°00 to 45°15’ north will continue to increase. The Earth’s axial tilt ranges from 24.5° to 22.1° on a cycle that takes approximately 41,000 years to run its full cycle. This means that the next time the 45°00 to 45°15’ latitude bracket will have 8 hours and 22 minutes of darkness will be 21,800 A.D.

    We determine latitude today by turning on our GPS. In the Ancient Era and extending into the 17th century, the primary way to determine latitude was using a gnomon and measuring the shadow length at solar noon on the longest day of the year (summer solstice). The shadow length ratio, effectively a measurement of time, was then translated into degrees of latitude. This concept and the practical use of the method is well-documented historically. The Ancients knew latitude and they could measure it accurately.

    An alternate method, which is also discussed historically, was to use the length of night on the opposing day of the summer solstice – meaning the winter solstice – for determining latitude.

    Why this obtuse discussion about gnomons, length of day, a latitude bracket which has 8 hours and 22 minutes of darkness every 20,500 years…when Scott’s blog posting is of map that essentially only illustrates Nova Scotia?

    Because of the Hooked X characters written on the map. The Kensington Rune Stone is the mother lode of Hooked X’s, right? What are the first two numbers on the KRS?

    8 and 22.
    -------
    Velcro balls that when flung against the wall, stuck. Being on the wall just means they haven’t fallen onto the floor and been swept into the discard pile. Interesting series of coincidences at this point.

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    1. Pat,

      One of the universal axioms of Freemasonry and Templarism when it comes to signs, symbols, tokens and numbers, think in multiple levels. There is almost always more than one meaning, and usually there are many. It just depends upon your perspective.

      You're on a roll pal, keep it going!

      Delete
    2. Patrick,

      After seeing the whole "C" Document map now. The map could be of Duluth Harbor, MN. Consider the very western part of São Miguel Island, Azores as being the Prime Meridian. This is shown in Diogo Ribeiro's 1529 map. São Miguel Island (25.5°W) in the Azores.
      http://zeehaen.tripod.com/unpub_2/multitude_meridians.htm

      XLVI XLI = N46° 45'
      Duluth, MN Harbor is N46° 45' 00.0" W91° 57' 17.4"

      Consider the very western end of Sao Miguel Island, Azores as the Prime Meridian and it has the Latitude/Longitude of
      N37° 50' 52.5" W25° 51' 17.4"

      LXVI VI = W66° 06'
      W25° 51' 17.4" plus W66° 06' 0.00" = W91° 57' 17.4"

      La Corrant de Moustre = Monster Current of the St. Louis River.

      Rhodon = is Red/Reddish, as Minnesota iron rich Red/Reddish Sand Spit or a Red Creek or Red Bluff or Red River

      La Deesse = the Goddess or Source or the Great Lakes-the St. Louis River.
      (Rivière du Fond du Lac) was the old French name-river at the bottom of the lake.

      XLV 00 Nord = use the N45° plate in your astrolabe.

      use “le Vingt quatre de juin” (Twenty four of the June) = The Nativity of John the Baptist on June 24.
      p@

      Delete
  15. Scott, here's some more off the wall stuff. The latitude script errors bother me. I chalked them up to a transcription error because it was the first thing that came to mind. Maybe they aren't. The latitude numbers on the northern section of NS count up from the Equator. The XLIX number is out of sequence - I haven't figured that one out, yet. Let's take the southern section of NS - the numbers are XLV XV [45°15’] and XLVI XLVII [46°47’]. This sequence does not follow the convention where 0° is at the Equator and 90° is the North Pole. At second glance, this is too glaring of a mismatch for latitude lines that are that close together. However, if the latitude zero point was opposite, or at the North Pole, then the XLV XV [45°15’] effectively becomes a latitude of 44°45'. The ruins at New Ross (New Rose? New Rhodon?) are at a latitude of 44°44'18.68"N. This is 7/10's of a mile south of the 44°45' latitude. The XLVI XLVII [46°47’]effectively becomes a latitude of 43°13’. This parallel is in the ocean south of NS and intersects the Eastern Seaboard of the US around Ogunquit, ME. This seems to be a throwaway.

    Under the premise that the latitude values for the southern half of NS should be run down from the North Pole, the circle with the two parallel lines in the middle, the 45°00' latitude value below it, and then the word "Nord" now has meaning. It means that latitude values lying to the south of the 45th parallel are established by using the North Pole as the zero point and then moving south to the Equator.

    Of course this is just objective speculation. I have no secondary thread to tie into what is just an interpretive guess at this point.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Hi Scott, here's something to possibly consider when assessing the medieval Norse capabilities of determining longitude.

    At a certain farm representing the farthest north reach of the Whetstone River just across the border in SD, can be found a large white rock with a flat top, which also oddly enough has what I believe is a medieval stonehole in it, from which was cracked out a slab about the size of the Kensington Runestone, but a bit smaller. Look at the flat-topped rock near the bottom of the page:

    http://hallmarkemporium.com/kensingtonrunestone/id27.html

    I wanted you to see this rock near Wilmot, SD, because it seems to be a Scandinavian marker of some kind. It is shaped just like an actual Swedish runestone I found a picture of online.

    I would like to speculate here about the possibility of longitude having been used for inland mapping in this region back in medieval days. This is something new I just verified for myself today. I think Duluth might be considered as the farthest westward opportunity for sailing a Norse vessel back in medieval days, when thinking about ships coming into the Great Lakes Area via the the St. Lawrence Seaway and a few rivers. The Copper Harbor petroglyph of the Norse sailing ship with snake-heads at each end comes to mind.

    So then, I've just established an important point of reference for Norse adventurers, that being Duluth. Duluth represents the end of westward sailing. As you know, this could be where the ship or ships were waiting for the KRS party to return to, if not Hudson Bay. My idea here is to shoot an isthmus from Duluth to this possible Scandinavian marker near Wilmot a few hundred miles away, which, again, may possibly be marking the final northward spot of attempted individual land-claiming with a pool of spring-water on the Whetstone River...one of several spots which seem to have been marked up with likely medieval stoneholes, as you already know.

    Well, I've recently discovered that on this proposed line between Duluth and the possible marker just across the border in SD, is Runestone Hill--of all places, just over fifty miles or so east of the proposed geographical marker. This plays into the notion that I think it is possible that Runestone Hill existed before the KRS was left there. I think the ten survivors may have thought other Scandinavians would be coming back to that spot called Runestone Hill for some reason. I think the reason may be because Runestone Hill happens to be on this isthmus line (or ley-line). But now the question comes up about how they did this--longitude-wise?

    I propose that they traversed up the Chippewa River from the MN River and stopped at a certain longitudinal point that they figured would be on this proposed ley-line...then they simply went a few miles over to Runestone Hill, which would offer them a safer distance away from the river highway, considering noise and campfire smoke. But, now, how did the Norsemen figure longitude? How did they know to leave the river at a certain point? My hypothesis here suggests they did. Thanks for the speculative indulgence.

    - Gunn

    ReplyDelete
  17. Pasadena P.,
    Interesting!! The numbers work out from Sao Miguel Island as you laid them out. It is interesting that two meridians on the map have the word "ovest" on them, one being the LXXIV XVII (Lake Memphremagog area?) and the second being the LXVI VI value that you used in your Duluth computation. How many times does one have to put "ovest" on a longitude meridian on the same map to convey that the area depicted on the map is west of the reference prime meridian? Seems duplicative to me, but could be innocuous. There is a reason why people take an interest in things like rune stones and the C-doc map...they compel us to try to figure out what they mean. They certainly are challenging!

    ReplyDelete
  18. Patrick,

    Using SkySafari - a Sky tracker software. Here is a possible explanation for LVIII XX (Upper Middle N/S line of the "C" doc map) or 58° 20' . On June 24, 1179 Duluth, MN -Venus is in Gemini when the sun rises at 4:15 a.m. and it is below the Horizon at the Azimuth of ≅58° 28' Using an Astrolabe they would have known this number even though Venus was below the Horizon and Venus rises at 4:28 a.m. -just 13 minutes after Sunrise. The rising of Venus on this holy day of "The Nativity of John the Baptist on June 24" would have been very important to the Templars/Cistercians. Maybe Scott could comment more on this part?

    As to the repetition of "ovest" in the "C" docs map. The Navigators/Templars c. 1179 A.D. were taught to use the Astrolabe in Europe or the Levant which are all East of the
    Prime Meridian in the Azores.
    Did the Templars/Cistercians find a map in the Levant that showed the "Michigan Cooper " routes , Azores and Duluth,MN?maybe the"C" docs were copied from this map they found?

    p@

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hey Scott,
    When you went to oak island on America Unearthed, why did the crane suddenly stop working when you were digging by the money pit?
    Diego

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Diego,

      I have no idea. The drill shut down and they had a Hell of a time get to start back up. For a while they were concerned it would start at all.

      For what reason I have no idea.

      Delete
  20. Hi Scott, thanks for a great article, I have been following your work a lot this year. I have been researching all year about the possibility of Templars arriving in the New World and setting up a base so that future generations, ie freemasons, possibly Kidd or La Buse, could travel there in later years to add to the treasures hidden on Oak Island. I am still working on the theory and trying to connect the dots. I'd love to show you my work when it's presentable.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I’m happy to look at specific points you think are important here if you’d like. That way others can weigh in on it as well. I’m sure I can provide some, hopefully, valuable input, but I know I don’t have all the answers.

      Delete
  21. Scott and Patrick, I think the following new information may fit in with the conversation about medieval longitudinal renderings, as concerning Duluth being a place of likely medieval significance. (First, though, I meant to say "azimuth line," not isthmus line in my above comment when talking about getting a bearing from Duluth to the suspected Norse marker stone near Wilmot, SD.)

    So, I only recently discovered a comparison to possibly make between the position location of Runestone Park, in relation to the Chippewa River, and the position of what may possibly be a newly identified medieval Norse site. What these two sites have in common is that they are each located about the same distance from the Chippewa River...and each site is on the east side of the river.

    I've never touted this "rock shelter" before because the rancher-owner seemed a bit hesitant to allow me to see it. Luckily, I had my trusty camera along that fine day! I still want to protect his privacy wishes about it, while letting others know of its existence. I purposely avoided (up to now) saying much about it or showing too many photos of the site on my website,

    http://hallmarkemporium.com/kensingtonrunestone/id37.html

    but I figure this is something to know about, since we're zeroing in on medieval waterways and mapping and "getting around" techniques.

    I think the Norse may have had "reference point camp-spots" along some of the regional rivers, as sort of inland geographical markers, maybe using ley-lines. That might account for some of the many reported stoneholes in this vicinity several miles south of Glenwood, MN, and also for the three stonehole rocks being on Skrael Hill at Runestone Park...possibly signalling a beginning or ending ley-line. I believe the visiting Norsemen both knew about and used adequate methods of getting around, using ley-lines, and also taking into account geographical features and markers and, yes, even stoneholes.

    I had written to Alice Beck-Kehoe about the rock shelter in an email, probably over a year ago, and she basically ruled out American Indians as building the structure, which leaves either pioneers throwing together a defensive position against regional Native Americans during the Sioux Uprising, or else more evidence of medieval Norse expeditions up the Chippewa River.

    One rock seems to show aged chiseling, like for a support beam. Iron chiseling would essentially rule out American Indians, as you know. Would frightened pioneers have constructed such a rock shelter around the time of the Civil War? If not, we may have something new to go along with all the other many evidences from the region pointing to medieval Norse visitation.

    Perhaps longitudinal readings were made while traversing up and down the north/south-running Chippewa River, aiding the travelers in establishing and re-finding important inland geographical markers...or, in other words, obvious (to them) Norse sites.

    I have many great photos from this site, which may actually be another medieval Templar site, if in fact that's what Runestone Hill is, too. I thought you would like to know about it, for consideration.

    Main questions: might we be we looking at a purposely erected, flat-faced stone pyramid, at this location of plenteous fresh spring water? Could this scene fit in with post-Templars--or even actual Templars, already associated (by you, Scott) with the Kensington Runestone? - Gunn

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bob, I know you are the stone hole guy, and I know you are quite passionate on the topic - as we all our in our the particular areas that we are researching. You have had my email for well over a year now...some research threads stay private for important reasons that we all recognize. Whether your rocks are a "shelter" or not, whose to say given that your pictures do not provide enough context for anyone to either agree or respectfully disagree with what you have hypothesized. As far as the depression in the rock being a cut off for a support beam, again, who can either agree or disagree given the cropped photo. Context is important. One thing that is interesting is that the angle of the lines is 26 degrees...maybe you should mention that to William Smith. With regards to the rock, you don't give dimensions nor do you give sightlines (azimuth bearing or points on the horizon that those angles point to). At 400% zoom in MS PowerPoint I don't pick up any chisel lines on the surface - did you? No chisel lines means natural cleavage, which means it wasn't man-made. You also mentioned ley lines...which is an idea that can never be proved. I don't know if you have done this, yet, but it is beneficial to pull up the historical aerial photos on the USGS Earth Explorer site and then view them in an application where you can adjust brightness and contrast to get topographical scarring details to "pop". Perhaps you might find wagon or sled tracks that running to the shelter indicating that it is an early pioneer rock wall or livestock enclosure. Lastly, as a suggestion, perhaps you should contact the various local historical societies down in Oklahoma in the areas where runic and latin character carvings were found. The OK rune stones straddle the longitude range that the MN stone holes and KRS were located. If the stone holes are navigation or positional markers of some type, then perhaps similar stone hole features may be found there in Oklahoma.

      Delete
    2. Patrick, I don't fully understand the various angles you're coming from, but here are many more photos of the proposed defensive Rock Shelter, so that you, Scott and other readers may, indeed, see the shelter in greater context.

      Do we have more than three choices here, or are we looking at either an American Indian rock structure (see the possible "firestone" in one photo), or a pioneer/settler thrown-together defensive structure from the Civil War and Sioux Uprising eras, or the handiwork of medieval Norsemen?

      I am making no claims, just showing some rather strange evidences of...something. Again, though, this rock structure is a few miles east off the Chippewa River, the same as with Runestone Park farther north.

      http://www.hallmarkemporium.com/kensingtonrunestone/id37.ht
      ml

      - Gunn

      Delete
  22. Academics have addressed it, rather than jump to ridiculous conclusions.

    If you will allow me to jump to my own conclusions, getting back to the subject at hand. That you would openly libel Professor Williams in such a manner as this blog post, means you're not worried about being found legally responsible for what is obviously an intentional tort on your part. I could conclude that you must have no real assets to lose, as truth will not be a legal defense available to you. That or you're just plain dumb. Maybe both?

    S. Simon

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. S. Simon,

      As I’ve already said, any potential legal implications have already been explored and I am quite confident there are no legal liabilities on my part. Thank you for your concern.

      Just so you understand, libel when someone intentionally disparages another person’s reputation and credibility without foundation or justification. I would ask you to read this posting again, carefully this time. The facts are consistent and clear. Williams and Nielsen conspired to commit fraud and that you turn a blind eye to it is not my problem or concern. I welcome any legal action Williams might choose to pursue. He has not, and will not, as he knows any action has no merit, will lead to further embarrassment and possible repercussions, and possibly reciprocal litigation against him. I'm sure he is hoping this will all quietly go away. Thanks for helping to not let that happen.

      Now, I ask you again to please read the post carefully, think things through carefully, and what you just submitted. Are you truly being objective or is this just a creative way of trying to defend this unethical behavior?

      With regard to the first point you made. The academics have addressed it, but being unable to understand what artifact is before them they have resorted to dismissal, personal attacks, and in this case, willful deception. Why would Williams and Nielsen risk their reputations and do an “about face” after participating in joint research with me, and then publishing that research in 2006? Maybe Loraine Jensen can help answer that question?

      Oh, and can you clarify exactly what you find so “ridiculous?”

      Delete
  23. Mr. Wolter

    It seems that anything that was hidden on Oak Island has already been found. I refer to the island being used as a pirate hiding cache. A former slave ends up owning a large part of the island? Think he found something.

    As far as any Templar treasure, it has been moved long ago and what the Lagina brothers are finding are the remnants of the hiding spot.

    I believe any booby traps date to the pirate age rather than the Templars, seeing as traps have not been associated with other sites. Puzzles? Yes. Traps? No.

    Dan Uhrich

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dan,

      Personally, I think your take is pretty close to right on. If the boys had ever found anything Templar treasure related it would have been world wide news. One thing I know is the Templars aren't stupid. They wouldn't have put all their eggs in one basket, and, nothing personal against the brothers who seem like nice guys, but if they haven't anything yet I highly doubt they will now.

      Booby traps? Flood tunnels? Not so much...

      Delete
  24. Scott, what are your comments on the two markings found in the well in New Ross shown on this weeks Oak Island?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I didn't watch the second episode, but heard they spent time in the well at New Ross which I have done also. The Delta/triangle is a symbol of Deity and was likely placed as a 'plea of protection' for something of great value.

      Unfortunately for the brothers, the thing of great value is no longer there. All I can say is the Templar's aren't stupid. They'll have more luck finding something on the island IMHO.

      Delete
  25. Scott, thanks! The symbol for Deity makes sense.

    Loved all your episodes on the History channel, it is obvious you are passionate about your work! I just wished the History Channel would not rehash material after a commercial break and put more "meat" into the show. This is not a knock on your show as they do this on all shows.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      No offense taken, I hated doing resets after commercials too, but it's standard practice in television. Stay tuned; I think you'll see something new and really exciting in the coming days.

      Delete
  26. Hi Scott,

    I'm seeing a lot of carvings or what appear to be on rocks and perhaps a tombstone on the Oak Island but what I am not seeing is some one such as yourself examining this stones.
    You found hoaxs in stone carvings in the past so why should we believe these stone carvings are anything but a giant hoax???
    I have no doubt the Knights were here long before Columbus set sail but I need a creditable person like you to prove they were on Oak Island

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unknown,

      I am not confident at all that many of the "carvings" shown on the Oak Island show are what they purport them to be. Without seeing them first-hand there's no way to tell for certain.

      Having said that, I'm extremely skeptical the "Templar Cross" gravestone as I have seen that and not convinced it's what they think it is. I've also been down the well and never saw the triangle carving or the arrow stone, but I could have missed them. The production company has consistently been very creative with graphics and in some cases have completely fabricated reality which makes me crazy.

      I have little confidence in the anything presented on the show and have no interest in helping the brothers; they go this and don't need my help. However, that doesn't mean the Templar's weren't on Oak Island and that Nova Scotia doesn't have a rich pre-Columbian Templar tradition because it does. The problem is this show trivializes that tradition with a silly, excruciatingly drawn out search for a treasure is no longer there IMHO.

      But don't let me spoil the viewer's fun. People want to believe that something might be found so relax and enjoy it.

      Delete
  27. Scott, glad you mentioned the two symbols in the well. The instant they were shown, I immediately remembered your survey of the well and thought it strange that someone with your scientific background and observation skills did not notice them. Especially the triangle at the opening.

    Do you have unedited footage showing the area of the triangle to compare?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      I do not have any film of the well unfortunately. History Channel owns all that footage and they won't give to me or anyone else. Regardless, I'm quite confident there isn't anything to get excited about in the well. I'll share more info about that in the future. Whether the triangle is legitimate or not is irrelevant at this point.

      Delete
  28. Scott,

    In today’s soundcloud posting with Hutton Pulitzer, he noted that he has worked on castles in Scotland and Ireland. Can you clarify if this is work you have or are doing together, but if not, what work is he referring to then that he would have done himself? Is this work supposed to be directly related to New Ross?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      This is not related to work Hutton and I have done together and I'm not sure what he was specifically referring to. I'll let Hutton chime in on that question.

      Delete
  29. To Anonymous on my blogs I normally do not respond to anonymous posts since I like to know who is asking the questions and hopefully form a dialog. However, since Scott tagged me and said I would here is my answer.

    My comment about Ireland and Scotland Castle investigations was a comment relevant to my personal work doing such. As most know who follow me, my family has castles (standing and destroyed in the ancient past) in both countries. My direct experience came from trying to find on particular family Castle which had been destroyed in hopes I could find some remaining stones to reclaim for history and family archives. As far as it being New Ross related. No not at all. Only the topic was New Ross and my comment was regarding NOT finding the common signs of footing, graveling, compacting and below grade stones which are normally associated with the engineering of serious load bearing walls associated with Castles or significant stone structures - when I investigated New Ross . Now this does not negate New Ross as a possible structure, this just means it has not been proven yet. Feel free to continue to ask here - if you are blocked in my groups and blogs, but best to tag me on Facebook, since I see the tag immediately. All the best, hope this helps.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Let's be honest here. You have never discovered any treasure in the form of ancient artifacts or valuable coinage. Ever.

      -Anonymous

      Delete
    2. Anonymous,

      I would call proving the authenticity of the Kensington Rune Stone, the Bat Creek Stone, the Tucson Lead Artifacts and discovering never-before understood aspects of the Newport Tower more amazing and important than gold and silver coinage any day.

      If you're referring to Hutton then I'll let him respond.

      Is there a point to comment?

      Delete
    3. Everyone has a value system on what deems worthy to them and I respect all conscious effort. I've noticed there are abundant amount of treasures to discover and beyond
      There are treasures to be had even just waking up and going outside to just breath is nice... then coming back to your beautiful house you discover things lol

      Delete
    4. Mariel,

      You make some very good points. But hey, let's say me, or somebody else found the Templar Treasure. The big question is, who would it belong to, me, Scotland, the Freemasons, the government, everyone?

      Be careful what you wish for right?

      Delete
    5. The Commander holds himself out as a treasure hunter. The point being he is not however a treasure finder.

      -Anonymous

      Delete
    6. Anonymous,

      You sound disappointed? And how would you know if he discovered anything or not?

      Delete
  30. Hi Scott,

    In what program and episode are You doing the work in the Well ?

    Thanks - John Eriksson

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Season 1, Episode 13, "Hunt for the Holy Grail."

      Delete
  31. Hi Scott,
    Being from Massachusetts,I think you are dead on with your scientific approach that America has been visited by Europeans Pre-Columbus in addition, the Templar connection is very intriguing with the evidence you shown here in New England. Was it you that thinks the Welsh came to America and claimed land, then French found the land markers changed and claimed them for themselves Pre-Columbus? Looking forwards to your future investigations.

    Paul Tibbetts

    ReplyDelete
  32. Scott please contact me directly on Facebook J. Alexander Thomson I inherited a Mason cipher key. Would like to talk a little more discreet. Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unknown,

      Best to email me at swolter@amengtest.com

      Delete
  33. How do you explain the maps use a 180W/180E system which is a relatively recent adoption and up to the 17th century they used a 360 degree system?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Henry,

      How can you say with certainty they didn't use these systems? If this map is authentic then apparently they did. We don't know either way at this point.

      Delete
    2. First of all there is the Prime Meridian, "In 1541, Mercator produced his famous forty-one centimetre terrestrial globe and drew his prime meridian precisely through Fuertaventura (14°1'W) in the Canaries. His later maps used the Azores, following the magnetic hypothesis. But by the time that Ortelius produced the first modern atlas in 1570, other islands such as Cape Verde were coming into use. In his atlas longitudes were counted from 0° to 360°, not 180°W to 180°E as is common today. This practice was followed by navigators well into the eighteenth century.[4]"

      And I have checked many maps including Portolan ones from year 1300 onwards and none use that system.

      Delete
    3. This is an example from 1555
      http://oakislandresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/map-route.jpg

      Delete
    4. Henry,

      The same argument was made against the Antikythera Mechanism/Device. This celestial computer was built using mathematics which "didn't exist yet".

      I'll use the examples of Euclid and Pythagoras. The mathematical systems credited to these two men were actually known for thousands of years before either man was born. They were just the first to transmit secret oral teachings outside of the Mystery Schools. The penalty for teaching secrets to the "profane" or committing these secrets to writing was death.

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    5. Anthony, the issue here is not the same, the earliest maps did not have longitudes and were called Portolan maps because the were based on distances from port to port. This is not technology that does not exist, but a way of drawing maps that did not come till at least late 18th century. I believe who drew them was not knowledgeable enough to pull it off as real.

      Delete
    6. Anthony Warren,

      I think that you are confusing what is going on. The same arguments were made "originally" against the Antikythera Mechanism/Device. However, the difference is that archaeologists and scientists had the actual, physical, original Antikythera Device in context. Not a drawn copy, of a copy, of a copy with no context.... . If you had the original, and the contextual evidence of date of creation, different story.

      After research and study, the arguments were changed against the Antikythera mechanism, becoming an incredible discovery that helped facilitate our knowledge of the past. That's how science works, when new factual evidence is presented and tested to be true, our understanding of what we know or thought we knew changes and advances.

      Regards,

      D

      Delete
    7. Henry and D,

      I'm not saying there're not any issues with the map. I just don't buy the "it wasn't known/used/invented yet" argument. I liken it to the "Megalithic Yard". Disappeared for 3,500 years, rediscovered by Dr. Alexander Thom in the 1960's, and yet...Mr. Alan Butler has proven beyond a shadow of doubt, our Capital was laid out using the MY as the unit of measure. Almost 200 years before it's "rediscovery".

      I'm pretty sure this is the first map I've ever seen with Roman Numerals. Has anyone converted their measurements to the MY? This is 2.72 of the modern Yard.

      D, the Antikythera Mechanism?Device took a long time to become accepted. Hardcore academics declared everything from fraud to modern invention. It's only become accepted very recently.

      There are apparently a couple of wrist-worn versions of this device. Only the casing remains. I've search the internet in vain for any pictures or mention of these cases. From what I understand, no one knew how to get the gears to work until, X-rays of the devices showed the teeth. And in all fairness. The Mechanism/Device could be a copy of a copy. Would have to find another with better craftsmanship to find out. Personally, I think it would be awesome if part of the "treasure" turned out to be a pristine, working Antikythera Mechanism/Device.

      Best regards to both,

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    8. Part 1

      Henry Abela,

      As I understand it, and correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that you are framing an argument postulating that since there are no surviving cartographic products prior to 1178/1179 A.D. which explicitly illustrate the convention of a meridian/anti-meridian and longitudes, or alternately, distances east or west of a reference meridian (Prime Meridian), therefore, it follows that the “ovest” label on the C-document map must indicate that it is a relatively modern cartographic work.

      Before we go on, I don’t think Scott Wolter has taken an absolute position that the date on the C-document map indicates it was crafted fully-born at that point in time. In fact, he always emphasizes that the document we see is a copy of a copy…and that the exact provenance – with the details that have been made public thus far – is unknown. Zena Halpern, to the best of my knowledge, has likewise not stated that the date is necessarily the origin date of the map. One comment that I have read or heard is that the date might reflect an exploration date. Perhaps as time moves forward there will be more details that allow all of us to more fully evaluate both the map details and its broader informational context.

      Your observation that portolan maps do not portray longitude directly in terms of degrees is correct. Most, but not all, portray what is a scale of distance that is used for the east-west vector component of the map. Effectively, this is a mathematically derived scale of the east-west vector component. A good source to understand this concept is the early 10th century writings of Al-Biruni. He speaks of the mathematical formulas (quadratic equations), linear distance units, and distance per degree of longitude used to derive positional coordinates. You can also find these principles further expounded on in early 16th century Latin manuscripts (primarily flowing out of Germany).

      For the most part, portolan maps do not illustrate a reference meridian (Prime Meridian). It wasn’t a schematic element that was required. One portolan style map with a reference meridian may be found in the 1545 Compendium of Cosmography (https://dl.wdl.org/7337/service/7337.pdf).

      There are a few portolan cartographic products which conceptually illustrate east-west vectors from a center point. The 1321 Vesconte World Map is a good example of this. Jerusalem is at the center of the map, thematically represent the center of the world and directly representing the center of the circle. As the north-south axis of this map represents the North and South Pole, or a sum total of 180° of latitude, it follows that the east-west axis of the map likewise conceptually represents 180° of longitude, or 90° west and 90° east of Jerusalem.

      T-O style maps, although circular in form, did not directly or thematically represent east-west longitude.

      Delete
    9. Part 2

      The concept of a Prime Meridian as an east-west reference for terrestrial longitudes extends further back in time – all the way to the Ancient Greeks of Ptolemy, Hipparchus, Eratosthenes and certainly others. The historical record is fragmentary prior to Ptolemy, but there are enough surviving elements to rationally ascribe the east-west longitude concept to this period of history. For reference, Book 8 of Ptolemy’s Geography ascribes geographical coordinates in terms of (Right Ascension) hours to the WEST of an Alexandria, Egypt reference meridian (Prime Meridian). There are, I believe, 360 geographical coordinates listed in this particular book (the other 6000 geographical coordinates are in Books 1-7 and they use the Fortunate Isle reference meridian and then increment up as they move east). I looked last night for a full listing to see if some of the 360 geographical coordinates were referenced as EAST of Alexandria, but could not find an English or Latin text to confirm or disprove that.

      Ptolemy’s Almagest clearly speaks to the fact that Alexandria was the actual astronomical and terrestrial reference meridian (Prime Meridian). Ptolemy did not EXPRESS – with the exception of the Book 8 coordinates – the Alexandria reference meridian in his Book 1-7 6000 coordinate set. He elected to translate his underlying values to a Fortunate Isle reference meridian and therefore we “see” his longitudes expressed as a function of degrees EAST from the Fortunate Isles. Effectively, he avoided having to use a direct expression of east-west longitude vectors based on the Alexandria, Egypt reference meridian.

      Here is what Ptolemy wrote in the Almagest on the Alexandria Prime Meridian:

      Book II; 13: {Layout of angles and arcs, parallel by parallel} (footnote 108)
      [See pp. 123-9.]

      “H188. Now that the treatment of the angles [between the ecliptic and principal circles] has been methodically discussed, the only remaining topic in the foundations [of the rest of the treatise] is to determine the coordinates in latitude and longitude of the cities in each province which deserve note, in order to calculate the [astronomical] phenomena for those cities. However, the discussion of this subject belongs to a separate, geographical treatise, so we shall expose it to view by itself [in such a treatise], in which we shall use the accounts of those who have elaborated this field to the extent which is possible. We shall [there] list for each of the cities its distance in degrees from the equator, measured along its meridian, and the distance in degrees of that meridian from the meridian through Alexandria, TO THE EAST OR WEST (my emphasis), measured along the Equator (for that [Alexandria] is the meridian for which we establish the times of the positions [of the heavenly bodies]) (footnote 109).”

      (Reference: Toomer, G. J. “Ptolemy’s Almagest.” Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1988.)




      If you are interested, you can see in this 1518 manuscript by Johann Stoeffler (https://archive.org/details/calendarivmroman00stoe) the expression of longitude values referenced to an Alexandria, Egypt Prime Meridian that denotes values EAST and WEST of Alexandria.
      ---------------

      Delete
    10. Part 3

      As our discussion is centering around the Almagest at this point, here is an excerpt of something that I had previously written (not published):

      “According to author G. J. Toomer, the Almagest was published at some point after A.D. 150, but prior to A.D 161, and likely in Alexandria, Egypt as it was the Library at Alexandria observatory from which the celestial observations were made. Its translation from Arabic to Latin was completed in A.D. 1175 in Toledo, Spain by Gerard of Cremona. This Latin version, as Toomer relates, was the impetus for a wider distribution of scribed copies of the manuscript throughout Europe in the 15th century. The first printed version was done in Venice in 1515. Parallel to the diffusion of the Latin version, but possibly along an earlier timeline and with more limited distribution, were Greek versions of the same work (Toomer 1968, 1-3).”

      What Toomer did not write about is that there was an Italian translation of the Almagest done in 1160 (Refer to the 1910 published article “The Sicilian Translators of the Twelfth Century and the First Latin Version of Ptolemy’s Almagest”)

      How ironic that Gerard of CREMONA translated the Almagest in 1175 and the CREMONA document, or C-document, date in the upper right corner is 1179!
      ---------------
      I don’t assess the “ovest” term on the C-document map as a disqualifier for a POSSIBLE 1179 A.D. provenance. I acknowledge that you have a different assessment in this regard.

      The concept of an east-west referencing from a reference meridian were well known and we actually have historical evidence by ca. 150 A.D of its application in Book 8 of Ptolemy’s Almagest.

      Delete
    11. Dear Patrick,

      Thanks for your detailed reply, the issue does not rest on using positive and negative numbering, there are too many issues to go into detail here but here is an outline, There are instances of Portolan maps that have a meridian, but this is used as a scale for latitudes, and they are generally paired with another/others at an angle to compensate for earth's curvature.

      The Coordinates on the map have an offset of 2 Degrees indicating it is using the Paris Meridian since this cannot be traced before 1634, That would be the earliest possible date for the map.

      "In the year 1634, France ruled by Louis XIII and Cardinal Richelieu decided that the Ferro meridian should be used as the reference on maps, since this island is the most western position of the Old World. It was also thought to be exactly 20 degrees west of Paris.

      A French astronomer, Abbé Jean Picard, measured the length of a degree of latitude and computed from it the size of the Earth during 1669–1670. In 1666, Louis XIV of France had authorized the building of an observatory in Paris to measure longitude. On Midsummer's Day 1667, members of the Academy of Sciences traced the future building's outline on a plot outside town near the Port Royal abbey, with Picard's meridian exactly bisecting the site north-south. French cartographers would use it as their prime meridian for more than 200 years."

      From this what we can deduce from the maps (assuming they are true) is that they could be the notes of a French researcher after 1630s (even if at the time the French used a 360 degree system) and in no way a copy of a medieval map.

      Delete
    12. Dear Patrick
      With reference to "There are a few portolan cartographic products which conceptually illustrate east-west vectors from a center point. The 1321 Vesconte World Map is a good example of this."

      The Vesconte map does not show a scale for longitude, which is what this is all about, the Prime meridian in that case was Jerusalem, and in no way is proof, show me an old map that has a horizontal scale on the equator that is not 360 degrees and shows E/W notation from a Prime Meridian

      Delete
    13. Part 4

      Henry Abela,

      We are not going to come to agreement, but this is necessarily to point in having a discussion, is it!

      I never stated that the Vesconte Map had a scale for longitude. I said it conceptually had the depiction of east-west vectors (as well as north-south) from a center point, that being Jerusalem. Given that portolans utilized an equirectangular projection, that being that latitude and longitude distances were equally represent by the framing boxes, this explicitly means that they had a numerical value for the distance between a degree of latitude (well-documented in texts which state the Sumerians, Arabs, and as you relate the French reconfirmed the value in the late 17th century. Furthermore, to do an equirectangular projection with a severe skewing of the landforms layered onto the grid, they also had to have an accurate measure of a degree of longitude (including the dimension ratio that is required as one moves from the Equator to the longitude intersections at the Poles; Ptolemy actually speaks of the ration in his treatises). Therefore, conceptually, the circular portolan’s geometry of lines within the circle conceptually represented latitude and longitude arrays as the map moved from the center point to the outside edge of the circles. Likewise, the circle informed us of rhumb line azimuths of landforms as one moved from the center point to where the landform was depicted. This concept is not surprising because the T-O and mappamundi maps also informed us of the azimuthal direction – from the center point – of their depicted landforms.

      The portolan maps are impressive, and given your knowledge of them, you will understand when I say that the maps are the finished product of information/data that is lost to history, namely the manuscript map(s) that they are based on. These were the textual information that listed the survey coordinates. Whether they were absolute coordinates, or translated coordinates, the fact is that these coordinates most certainly did exist. I have only been able to find two of these data sets, or manuscript texts, namely the c. 1424 Vienna and Nancy Texts of the Cistercian-educated Dane, Claudius Clavus.

      Since it is clear that you have some good knowledge of portolans, you also recognize their underlying mathematical/geometrical basis which, I believe, may be ascribed to the Arab astronomers/astrologers/cosmographers subsequent to Ptolemy. You also, I am sure, are aware of how the Arabic science, astronomy, astrology, & medicine flowed into the Moorish-region of Spain (Iberia) and then diffused through Europe. Al-Andulus, Barcelona, Toledo, and Palma, Majorca were prominent locations where the diffusion of knowledge occurred for nearly 400 years beginning in the 10th century.

      Delete
    14. Part 5

      Here is a fantastic paper written by Jose Chabas which speaks of how the Arabic and Indian zij’s were translated and adopted for use in various locations in Spain and, later, throughout Europe (http://www.raco.cat/index.php/Suhayl/article/viewFile/287235/375480). The adoption of these zij’s to a particular place required the establishment of the local meridian, effectively making each of these locations a potential Prime Meridian reference.

      I mention this because you are quite fervent in accepting Scott’s assertion that the C-document map longitudes are referenced to the Paris PM and, therefore, indicate that the map post-dates 1634. Your assertion may very well be true, but I would remark that the C-doc longitudes could just as likely be referenced to a reference meridian of Barcelona or Palma, Majorca. My point is these possibilities should not be discounted, in other words, the fat lady isn’t singing, yet.

      Whether you accept that or not is not altogether important to me. The locations cited in Jose Chabas’s paper are not listed on Wikipedia as being Prime Meridians, therefore it must be that they weren’t! Last week I ran across an early 16th century German manuscript which listed hundreds of geographical coordinates which were referenced to Stuttgart, Germany as the Prime Meridian. Hey…you can’t find Stuttgart on the Wikipedia listing either!

      I have to say that I am puzzled by your insistence that the C-dcoument map depicts a “180W/180E system” of meridians. I see longitude lines whose numerical value increases as you move east to west on the map. The convention means that the reference meridian lies far to the east off the margin of the map. The word east doesn’t appear on the map, unless I have somehow overlooked it. I see longitude lines that fit a historical convention that existed since the Ancient Greeks, if not prior. There are fixed to a reference meridian.

      Remember, longitude numerical degrees are equivalent to time (Ptolemy Almagest).

      Try as I might, I fail to see the significance that you are placing on the “west” label for longitude. It is a label that denotes where the reference meridian is located, no more, no less. It doesn’t date the map in any fashion, although you are asserting that it places a modern provenance to the label. As the anti-meridian is in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, it seems pretty apparent that they were referencing the Prime Meridian from the European continent.

      You can look at these maps if you are inclined:

      1561 Giacomo Gastaldi/Vincenzo Valgrisi
      http://myndir.islandskort.is/map/Fyrstu_Islandsgerdir_a_kortum_1/Schonladia_nvova_11/13/2012-03-02-11-25-20.jpg

      1570 Ortelius
      http://myndir.islandskort.is/map/Fyrstu_Islandsgerdir_a_kortum_1/Septentrionalivm_regionvm_descrip_tio__17/19/2012-09-04-11-17-24.jpg

      Delete
    15. Part 6

      In both of the above cases, the Prime Meridian is illustrated (360°). In one case the map longitudes begin the numerically decrease. In both cases the longitudes to the left of the 360° reference meridian are WEST of the PM.

      It’s a concept, Henry. One that is now over two millennia old, at a minimum.
      ------------------------------------------
      You are a smart guy, Henry, so I am going to toss a couple things for you to chew on, if you are willing. 1) On the C-document map you find the word “continua” in two places. Scott has already laid out the purpose on one of the usages of the word. Find the second usage of it – why is THAT there? I haven’t figured that one out, yet. Also, look up the etymology of that word. Why is that word on a map littered with French words. I think you’ll figure out what I have written in these lengthy posts. 2) This doesn’t deal with the C-document, but it is on the larger playing field that you have an interest in. Why were Eratosthenes and Ptolemy so interested in measuring the precise time of solstice and equinox events using an equatorial ring? What were they trying to do? What later instrument incorporated the equatorial ring and why do we find its depiction on so many medieval manuscripts dealing with cosmography? Look up the Arabic word of al-bayda…make the connection. Think about lunar eclipses and what they were used for as outlined in Ptolemy’s Almagest? If you look, I think you will start to see a larger picture develop. Anyways, good conversation. If this stuff was easy and straightforward, we would all be in agreement – but it is neither easy nor straightforward!

      Delete
    16. Patrick/Henry,

      Great to see a respectful exchange of ideas even though you disagree. This is how discourse of differing ideas should be.

      With regard to Zena's map, keep in mind that we have to be careful about framing the argument to suite our predetermined beliefs, even if we don't realize we are doing it. This is standard procedure of the trolls that used to visit this site and, thankfully, have moved on. Nobody wants to read the rants and insults of close-minded, agenda driven individuals. This is how adults discuss things.

      What I most like is in the end, even if you are not persuaded by the other's argument, you've provided food for thought, likely learned something new, and parted knowing there are no hard feelings.

      Nicely done guys.

      Delete
    17. "With regard to Zena's map, keep in mind that we have to be careful about framing the argument to suite our predetermined beliefs, even if we don't realize we are doing it."

      And there went my coffee out of my nose.

      As Henry is done shredding Patrick despite the lengthy distractions above, when he continues to point out the sheer nonsense put forth on this blog, he'll soon be castigated most viciously like the others that attempt to introduce reason within.

      Delete
    18. Patrick and Scott

      Scott, Thanks, I agree, when the interest is to search for the truth of the matter, there is no room for personal bickering :) This discussion proved to be fruitful to me too.

      Patrick, I understand your point of view, but I believe it will become too complex and technical to discuss here, I have been following the cartographic trail for Norembega (River, City and Geographical area) and what I found peculiar is that the Bay of Fundy was first mapped by Champlain, in 1607, every instance that I have encountered before that portrays the area where it is supposed to be is depicted as a large river and labelled Norembega, Anoregua, Rio Grande, Rio Fundo amidst others. I am still in the research process but from what I researched so far none portray bay of Fundy as shown in the C document, and what I find peculiar is St Mary's Bay which is shown relatively accurate. For me this raises a lot of doubts and the C Document seems to be inspired by the Cantino Planisphere with added shorelines like bay of St Mary.

      Back to the issue of the Prime Meridian, I found instances of maps showing an equatorial scale with a W/E division but this prime meridian was located in between Africa and the US and on some there is another line at the bottom with the 360 degrees, but still these do not match the coordinates present on the C document.

      I accept that there is still a remote possibility of them being genuine, I wish this document was true, but for me it does not cut it.

      Regards
      Henry

      Delete
    19. Anonymous,

      Wow, I threw out a line to see if I could catch a troll and landed you with my first cast! Not only are you a classic example of the negative close-mindedness I was referring to, but you don't even have the courage to use your real name.

      Shame on you...

      Delete
    20. Patrick,

      Could you please elaborate on the "lunar eclipses"?

      Blood-Red-Lunar Eclipse

      Death-Black-Solar Eclipse

      I've been thinking about this symbolic language for the past several days. I've been trying to recall which biblical verse this also pertains to. Something about "Blackening out the Sun, and turning the Moon to blood".

      Anthony Warren

      Thank you Patrick and Henry. I've learned something from your posts.

      Delete
    21. Anonymous,

      I haven't taken the hook out of your mouth yet and won't until you properly identify yourself and use a more civil and respectful tone. Until then, Anonymous trolling won't be allowed?

      Delete
    22. Henry/Patrick-been waiting for someone to bring up Lunar Eclipse/Longitude in this discussion.

      Lunar Eclipse Method for Determining Longitude

      Patrick’s- Part 6 “Think about lunar eclipses and what they were used for as outlined in Ptolemy’s Almagest”

      “Lunar Eclipse Method” not as accurate as the modern day of using chronometer to determine your position at sea but in c. 1179 it was not that important to know ones exact position at sea-just time and distance = speed/path integration from one point to another (dead reckoning).

      Lunar Eclipse Method-Although not that accurate -It has been known for centuries how to determine Longitude by knowing the time (start) of an eclipse and comparing that time with the start at a different location. This all depends on time - from the start of the eclipse from sunrise/sunset, noon, midnight etc. From say c. 1179 a.d. to 1362 or 183 years of travel/observation of religious events/Eclipses -one could get a somewhat accurate knowledge of longitude at different locations.

      During a lunar eclipse the sun travels across the earth at a rate of 15° per hour from Duluth, MN to the Saõ Miguel, Azores the sun takes 5 hrs to travel that distance. 5 hrs. X 15° =60° as in the “C” doc. LXVI VI = W66° 06'

      Prime Meridian- Fortunate Isles/Azores 25° 40′ 32″ W
      Used until the Middle Ages.

      Longitude/Lunar Method
      http://astroguyz.com/2008/02/14/detrimine-your-longitude-the-lunar-eclipse-method-part-i/

      Anthony- in the “C” docs. could Rhodan = Red/Blood Red Moon = Lunar Eclipse?

      p@

      Delete
    23. Patrick, regarding the continua, it is an italian word for continue, the stars are which part goes where, and the coordinates are there for proper placement, and is the reason there is a grid on the lower part. This defines the role of the map to limit it to the area of that square.

      To sum it all up, I believe what we are looking here are the notes of a French Researcher, the numbers on top would be 30, 160 (CLX) 1179 and depending how one sees it, could be units of measure or a means of triangulation and not necessarily make 1179 a date. The use of the Paris Meridian indicates towards a French Researcher as well, the only thing tying it to the Templars is interpreting 1179 as a date and not a number. So with enough evidence towards a more recent provenance against an interpretation of a number as a date I go with the former.

      Scott, I believe that the map might still be valid, but not as a copy from a Templar map.

      Delete
    24. Henry,

      In fairness to you and the other readers of this blog, there are other maps that go with this one and they have the same CLY (not CLX) sigla which almost certainly is the scribe. In most cases, as on this map, but not all, the page number is also there with the Sigla. This map is the only one with a date which along with a lot of other written documentation confirms the date is 1179.

      Sorry to be so cryptic, but this is Zena's research and I've kept it quiet at her request for the past decade other than what she let me publish in my "Akhenaten" book.

      Not only do the three Hooked X's on this map alone prove it's of Templar origin, but the rest of the documents leave absolutely no doubt.

      Delete
    25. Scott, It could be CLY as well, but I would not put it before 17th century for sure, by this I am NOT excluding that they are Templar in nature. (Sorry for the emphasis but wanted to make that clear). They could have been redrawn and converted from Portolan to Mercator. Regarding the hooked X they could have been in use by the same society over time, I believe only someone who was part of it could have had access to that information and put it on that map.

      I do not know Zena's research on this but it has to be really solid evidence, if the paper and ink can be tested to be older than at least 1900 then we have a different story, as that would eliminate fabrication almost completely.

      This is as far as my speculation goes, when we will hear about the provenance etc... I would be able to analyse it further.

      Delete
    26. Pasadena P@,

      FINALLY!!! Thank you for the links! I've heard that "Rhodon" means either "Red King" or "Red God". Not sure if either is correct or not. I like the way you think.

      My mind is drawn to the sphere with two lines. Looks just like ancient spheres made of materials ranging from clay, stone, and metal. I believe the "Klerksdorp Sphere" is one of the better known. I'd only seen spheres of the stone and metal variety until, I came across a Sumerian version made from clay. If I can find the article, I'll provide a link. I believe the metal versions could have been used as a navigational tool.

      I'm not sure if the "O O" are zeroes or not. What do you think?

      Best regards,

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    27. Pasadena P@,

      The "red" could also pertain to the helical rising of Venus. I'm pretty sure this is what's symbolized by the red circular stone, above the Master Master Mason's Mark stone in the Newport Tower.

      There's always multiple levels of meaning to symbols, however, from my experience, they all boil down to Astronomy. The only differences I've found between various religions is terminology, and place specific celestial observations.

      Just this morning, I watched a program showing 3 children dressed as the 3 Magi holding a pole with a light at the top. This was part of their Christmas celebration. The 3 Magi are the 3 stars of Orion's Belt. It's not hard to figure out which "Light" they're holding up. This festival was over 1,000 years old. I'm quite certain none of the children had any clue.

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    28. Anthony,


      XLV 00 Nord
      See my reply on November 18, 2016 at 5:25 PM

      Astrolabe-
      Using the Astrolabe to find Longitude- it would be very important to know the time when the moon rises/sets to get the exact time the Eclipse would start. (see “Uses of the Astrolabe” in 1st link below)

      Old instruments included several plates engraved on both sides, so the instrument could be used at several latitudes. It was possible to take the instrument apart and insert the plate closest to the user's latitude in the mater. (see “Parts of the Astrolabe” in 1st link)

      “C” DOCS- (possible connection) XLV 00 Nord

      Duluth, MN is exactly on the N45° 00 Latitude- The XLV 00 Nord = instructs the user to use North 45° 00’ plate in your astrolabe.

      http://www.astrolabes.org/pages/parts.htm

      http://astroguyz.com/2008/02/14/detrimine-your-longitude-the-lunar-eclipse-method-part-i/#more-129

      P@

      Delete
    29. Pasadena,

      I'm sure you noticed the Hooked X in the "X" in XLV?

      Duluth is actually 46.7867° N latitude.

      Delete
  34. If this map truly is a copy of a copy of a copy, then you don't know what lines or definition was added with each successive copying. No dates, no reference and no author makes for bad history.

    S. Simon

    p.s. A remark posted above in regard to your libel of Professor Williams was meant to attach to the blog subject just below. The "ridiculous" reference was in regard to the mentioning of mummies and their vices.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. S. Simon,

      It's not bad history, it's just the situation that it is. You're right that multiple generations of on the other hand, this is what we have and I feel it is our duty to learn as much as we can with what we have, it might actually be a faithful first generation copy. There is an author's sigla at the top of the page, so we at least do know his initials.

      You should refrain from using the word libel in this situation since it doesn't apply. I'm surprised you don't find the situation as blatantly troubling as it is. Care to explain why?

      Delete
    2. If you do not believe that you libeled Professor Williams, then I will pay for you to travel to Sweden. Believe me, appropriate accommodations will quickly be made for you upon arrival.

      S. Simon

      Delete
    3. It’s not that don’t “believe” I haven’t libeled Williams, I KNOW I haven’t since he and Nielsen absolutely conspired to commit academic fraud and I have proved it. That you apparently don’t have the ability to understand or accept that fact is not my problem. Having said that. I’m perfectly willing to forgive Williams if he makes the appropriate steps to correct the situation which he has the power to do.

      So can we please stop with the silly comments and get serious about this situation shall we Mr. Simon?

      Delete
    4. Professor Williams has already taken the appropriate steps to correct the situation you attempted to create. In doing so, his work has taken on a joyous quality that cannot be denied. I always look forward to more from him given his worldly expertise with runes which also cannot be denied.

      S. Simon

      Delete
    5. S. Simon,

      I’m very encouraged to hear Williams is taking steps to correct the situation, but I’ll believe it when I see it. Now that Richard Nielsen has passed away, Williams and his agent, Loraine Jensen, have the opportunity to do the right thing. They can start by finally releasing the 3D imaging study data the fraudulent findings Dick and Williams published were based on. It’s been 8 years now and it’s time to come clean. This is the first step in cleaning up the fraud.

      Williams and Jensen also need to stop making the false claim the KRS was “damaged” by molding to create casts, and now weathering studies can no longer be performed. They are not geologists and this is completely false. It’s a dishonest ploy to try and convince certain authorities that runology and linguistics are the “only” way to solve the KRS.

      I do agree that Williams is an expert in Viking Age runes, but as he said in his recent lecture, the KRS does not follow the conventions of Viking and medieval age rune stones. Thank you Captain obvious. The fact of the matter is Williams hasn’t a clue what he’s dealing with. The KRS inscription is a unique, one-of-a kind Templar document and he and other scholars need to reach out to people who can help them with these aspects. I have reached out privately to Williams offering a truce, and help with those aspects of the inscription he knows nothing about. He has remained silent because of his hatred for me, a lowly undergrad geologist he views as intellectually beneath him. This is very puzzling as we worked together for 5 years with Richard Nielsen, and that collaboration resulted in a 574-page book. That book, which included new runological and linguistic discoveries, definitively solved the question of authenticity.

      There are two things that caused the 180-degree turn by Williams and Nielsen in 2006. The first was Nielsen’s inability to pay his half of the expenses for producing 5,500 copies of the book that I ended up paying for ($37,500). He repeatedly tried to claim I denied him royalties and he is correct. He just neglected to tell people he never ponied up his half of the initial funds to earn the right to those royalties. This was the first time I saw the real Dick Nielsen. If I am lying about this then he would have sued me long ago, but that never happened. This situation with Williams is no different; he won’t sue me for libel because he knows I can prove my charge and he doesn’t want to bring attention to his misdeeds with the KRS inscription. This is all about wrestling control of the discussion, and diverting credit to himself for his eventual claim the KRS is a genuine artifact. Why else would he take such risks with his credibility, and his legacy, with a “known fraud?”

      The second thing to happen is when I introduced Nielsen to Loraine Jensen in November of 2005, he was smitten by her. She then convinced Dick, and eventually Williams, they were the “real brains” and deserved all the credit for solving the KRS. That’s when they hatched a plan to try and marginalize me and wrestle control of the KRS research and discussion. This led Nielsen to deceive the Runestone Museum into allowing the 3D study, yet denying them and the world, the imaging data they used to base their fraudulent claims about the inscription. They “removed” physical dots and short lines made by the carver after the inscription was carved, and added others that simply don’t exist. They have now published these erroneous findings knowing full well they don’t exist and that is textbook fraud. The facts have been presented and I stand behind my claims, yet you refuse to see it.

      You and many others are being led around by the nose by charlatans my friend. Open your eyes…

      Delete
    6. You cannot libel the dead. Those living however are taking note.

      S. Simon

      Delete
    7. S. Simon,

      The facts surrounding Dick Nielsen's conduct with matters relating to the KRS book, the 2008 3D imaging study of the KRS and our joint research is well documented and his legacy will be what it is.

      I'm very glad the "living" fraudsters are taking note, but I already know they troll every word I say. They should read these words very carefully as I can back up every one of them and they know it. Wrestling temporary control of the Runestone Museum will only delay the inevitable. Unless they take appropriate steps to correct the situation they alone have the power to fix, I'm afraid things will not go well moving forward.

      There are other "people" watching these events unfold and I can assure you they are not pleased. Now run along and report back to your friends so they can hear all about what "Simon" says...

      Delete
    8. Other than the dead and those who are not residents of the United States, describe to me in very clear detail those who are committing fraud against you. Full names. Dates. Substance.

      S. Simon

      Delete
    9. S. Simon,

      When did I say they had committed fraud against me? They conspired and committed fraud against the world. However, it's an easy thing to fix that Williams, with the help of his agent Loraine Jensen, could accomplish if they wanted to by simply doing the following:

      1. Release ALL of the data to the public from the 3D imaging study performed on the KRS in 2008.

      2. Make the appropriate corrections to the physical features within the KRS inscription and publish them. This includes 14 physical features they have removed (punch marks and short lines made by the carver AFTER carving the inscription) and the 11 features they added that do not exist. Keep in mind that I can prove every claim I have made and they know it.

      3. A formal apology for their conduct would be a nice touch, but that's probably be asking a bit much.

      Delete
    10. S. Simon,

      Incidentally, I would be happy to help them with the interpretation of the physical geological features as to what is man made and what isn't. They need to set aside the personal issues and do what's in the best interest of history, humanity and themselves.

      I'm 100% serious about that.

      Delete
  35. History Channel is playing Holy Grail in America right now just a little while before a new episode of Oak Island....I wonder if it's tonights episode that shows the "x with a hook" and this is a setup for it....I hope they're giving you a fat check Scott!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. David,

      A fat check? Hardly. I told them they couldn't use the "Hooked X" phrase that I've trademarked. So, they cleverly switched the wording around.

      Whatever, I've had my time.

      Delete
    2. Well, hate to break it to you, but Prometheus Entertainment must have had their attorneys check out what rights your trademark actually granted and determined that they could use the wording "hooked X". While Dan Henskee used the alternative wording "An X ... with a hook", the narrator clearly said "hooked X" twice.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous,

      First, that stone was made of a combination of a natural line, likely a glacial striation or some other natural linear feature, and three man-made lines. The other line is actually two lines with the really short line added to the upper line for the hook. However, it's not a Hooked X made by a monk traveling with medieval Templars in my opinion.

      The fact that they gave me credit for my research, and the Hooked X, was actually the appropriate way to handle things and actually helps my efforts, not hurt them. The way the Hooked X was presented helped my credibility, so I'm good!

      Delete
  36. Scott,
    I can't wait to see what else you have in store for us. I find your research fascinating!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Julia, the next round of discoveries will be the best ever and worth the wait.

      Stay tuned.

      Delete
  37. Hello all,
    I was traveling over the last few days so apologies on the tardy responses from me.

    Henry, your observation that St. Mary’s Bay being an accurate landmass depiction is accurate. You reach a different conclusion from that observation than I do. The landmass was there in 1179 so, to me, someone could have surveyed it and then artistically depicted it accurately in that era. Is there a general trend in cartographic representations that show landmass depictions becoming more granular and more accurate as we move towards the modern era? Yes! But it is a scatter plot whose trendline slopes upward. You, Anthony, me – and anyone else who looks at maps – can cite examples where ancient maps are amazingly accurate for their period and conversely, modern maps that are terribly poor for their era.

    Good luck with the Norumbega stuff! Its shifting location on maps is a perfect example of the challenges that cartographers had in taking information and reconciling it onto their respective cartographical representation. It illustrates that no single person, party, or organization had a complete – and mutually reinforcing – set of geographic data points.

    None of us – with the possible exception of Zena and Scott - know how and when the various “layers” of information elements found their way onto the C-document map. Maybe there are additional clues on the other maps that will help us coalesce our respective ways of thinking about the C-document map. I, for one, view maps as the product of successive layers of information elements. This is the exact nature of cartography – the representation of knowledge collected over time.

    Scott talks about the unique “CLY” symbol found in the upper right corner of the C-document map POSSIBLY being the sigla of the scribe who created the document. Gutenberg’s ca. 1440 invention of the printing press foretold the eventual end of scribes copying and re-copying documents and manuscripts by hand. It took several decades for widespread adoption of the printing press, but, as an observation, all of the manuscript texts and codices that I have looked at starting with the early 15th century and moving towards modern times are typeset. The possible “CLY” sigla is interesting as it could posit that the C-document map has a provenance more towards medieval times, perhaps even 1179, than it does towards the 18th century. Then again, a skeptic’s point of view would be that the possible “CLY” sigla has been “salted” onto the document to make it appear older than what it really is.

    And the argument goes on….!

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anthony,

    I enjoyed reading your take on the word “Rhodon.” We are all doing an interpretation game, so it is really beneficial to see how others interpret the different map elements!

    “Rhodon” – rose, red, rhodium (element, naturally occurring red-color found in platinum deposits, not formally classified until 1803, could not find evidence of platinum deposits in Nova Scotia).

    Go to this website and search for the word “red” in the various geologic formations in Nova Scotia. Blomidon Noel Shore, Burntcoat Head – all have significant formations or red rocks:
    http://www.bayoffundy.com/articles/44-geologically-significant-nova-scotia-sites/

    The “Rhodon” latitude on the C-doc map is 45°15’N.

    All the red rock formations are found along, or in near proximity, to 45°15’N. A quick look on Google Earth of the sediment deposits in the bay near Truro, NS shows they are reddish-orange in color. As best I can tell, it looks like these deposits are found in the Annapolis Valley area of NS and extend over to the western coast. Perhaps this is how they came to know the landmass definition of the St. Mary’s Bay region so well?

    As an initial interpretation layer, the word “rhodon” and the latitude of 45°15’N on the C-document map are a good fit.
    -----------
    I looked a bit at “blood red moons” while working the KRS phrase “After we came home, found 10 men red from blood and dead.” The proponents of the literal meaning are looking for the graves of ten men. I was thinking allegorically…red with blood and dead could be the setting sun or a “red blood” moon during a solar eclipse. The limited research I did on various moon colors was interesting, and the religious and spiritual meanings ascribed to the colors and the actual historical events was something I had not known before, but that research thread was shelved by me because I couldn’t see how any of it could be connected in an objective fashion without specific historical dates being mentioned.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anthony,
    I think the “XLV 00 Nord” is latitude 45°00’N. There are seven latitude values on the map. Four latitude values are above the circle with two parallel lines. These values are only given in degrees. Two latitude values are below the circle with parallel lines. They are expressed in degrees and minutes. Why the convention break? There are no other latitude or longitude values on the map which have a “zero zero” (00) component.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Patrick,

      45 degrees is reportedly the optimal latitude for making astronomical observations in the Northern Hemisphere. Medieval observatories in Cremona, Italy, are a prime example and just may be connected to the "C" Document...

      Rhodon (Rose) is likely related to the Templar "Rose Line" which people automatically assume is a prime meridian of longitude. Did anyone ever stop to think it might mean an important line of latitude?

      Remember, these guys were sailing on the ocean and could dead recon on a line of latitude and when they hit land were "there."

      I think we all need to be careful about making certain assumptions about the methods of navigation medieval Templar mariners used. We know they were experts on the seas and also know they were highly secretive. It makes sense to me they might have developed their own unique methods of navigation the world still hasn't figured out yet. Perhaps we're getting a first time glimpse of those methods with this map?

      Delete
    2. Scott Wolter(replies) December 3, 2016 at 3:05 PM

      "I'm sure you noticed the Hooked X in the "X" in XLV?"

      Scott,

      The hint that you gave me of the Hooked "X" in XLV

      The KRS has a Latitude of N45° 48' 40.5"

      p@

      Delete
    3. Pasadena,

      I'm not saying there isn't a connection to the KRS, but if this map truly is linked to an original Templar map in 1179, this would be almost two centuries before the KRS was carved and buried as a land/settlement claim.

      Delete
    4. Scott, and Gunn -heres one for you-

      at the KRS site N45 18' 40"

      The connection is the only thing they have in common -

      In 1179 A.D. on the Spring Solstice on June 15th the Sunsets at an Azimuth of 305° 15' in the N/W

      In 1362 A.D. on the Spring Solstice on June 13th the Sunsets at an Azimuth of 305° 39' in the N/W

      Now 2017 A.D. on on the Spring Solstice on June 20th the Sunsets at an Azimuth of 305° 31' in the N/W

      305° Azimuth- when the sun sets halfway below horizon, looking like the "C" doc map, circle with 2 lines thru it.

      305° Azimuth from KRS site points the start of the Red River System that flows to Hudson Bay - just 54.9 miles away N/W

      http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/seasons.html?year=1150&n=159

      "At the confluence of the Bois de Sioux and Otter Tail Rivers near Wahpeton, North Dakota, where the Red River begins"

      http://nd.water.usgs.gov/index/rrfaqs.html

      p@

      Delete
    5. Dear Scott,

      "With regard to Zena's map, keep in mind that we have to be careful about framing the argument to suite our predetermined beliefs, even if we don't realize we are doing it. " - Scott Wolter, December 2 7:17am

      Then you go on to say:

      "Not only do the three Hooked X's on this map alone prove it's of Templar origin, but the rest of the documents leave absolutely no doubt." - Scott Wolter, December 2 6:18pm

      I think you may need to heed your own advice.

      Regards,

      D

      Delete
    6. D,

      I stand by the comments I made as I've provided conclusive evidence in three books and multiple papers about the association of the Hooked X with the Cistercians and Knights Templar. Of that point I have no doubt. However, the question of when these documents were created is what we do not know.

      There is no predetermined conclusion being reached here, the documents make it 100% clear they were created by medieval Templars. However, that doesn't definitively prove that is the case.

      Delete
  40. Anthony,
    The word “continua” is not a French word. According to Google Translate, its etymology is either Italian, Portuguese, or Catalan. Of the three, it is interesting that the latter one is associated with the Catalonia area of Spain (which is northern Spain and southern France). This is the same – and primary - geographic area where the Arabic knowledge transfused into Europe. For me, this is an interesting association, but at the same time, the I recognize the etymology of “continua” extends as well to Italy and Portugal.

    The Arced-X symbol on the Spirit Pond Map Stone – which is the longitude component of a longitude/latitude geographical coordinate – has its origination in the Carolingian region of Spain, which is a somewhat large area, but which includes southern France and Northern Spain. The Arced-X is found on Cistercian ciphers in the Carolingian region in the 9th century as well as on an astrolabe dating from ca. 1250 A.D. constructed in Spain. Interesting coincidental intersections.

    I have not yet found the usage of the word “continua” in a Medieval Era manuscript, but it is interesting that it is found in modern usage (https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridiano_(geografia)) in the Portuguese language in descriptions of meridians and how they “continue” or extend along the cited longitude and how they intersect other locations and landmasses. The 63°50’W longitude, when the 2°20’ offset from the Paris/Barcelona/Majorca meridian axis is factored in, becomes 61°30’W. When we further offset the meridian to drop onto the geographic position illustrated on the map, a promontory at the northern end of Nova Scotia, we have a derived longitude of 60°35'49.72"W. This meridian slices through Labrador to the north. Its run south doesn’t intersect any landform until is strikes South America.
    So what does the word “continua” signify on this meridian on the C-document map? Rationally it doesn’t merely represent the continuation of the meridian line across the landform of Nova Scotia – that could be accomplished in much simpler fashion by just drawing the line across Nova Scotia.
    Could the word “continua” actually imply that this meridian was a formerly used, but now discarded, Prime Meridian, or a reference meridian? On its face, the quick answer is “No.” Then, if one examines the placement of this particular meridian at 60°35'49.72"W, it sits uncannily close (23 miles to the west) to the 0°/360° meridian depicted on one of the Skalholt Maps, the adjusted Line of Demarcation of the 1494 Treaty of Tordesillas depicted as running between Newfound and Nova Scotia on 16th century maps, it corresponds to geographic coordinates found in 16th century manuscripts, it aligns with the “western parallel” spoken of by Jaime Ferrar in a letter written in the first part of 1495 to the Sovereigns of Spain, and it corresponds to the reference meridian for the longitude scale values found in the ca. 1424 Vienna and Nancy Texts.
    Could the word “continua” actually imply that this meridian was a former used, but now discarded, Prime Meridian, or a reference meridian? I say “Yes.”

    ReplyDelete
  41. Hi Scott, I just wanted to emphasize again the importance of DULUTH as a point of geographical and nautical reference representing the END of westward sailing. (Not boating or canoeing, but actual sailing.)

    I wanted to emphasize again, too, that there seems to be this medieval Norse marker near Wilmot, SD, in the form of a large, flat-topped white rock with an aged-appearing and quite obvious triangular-shaped stonehole chiseled into it, from which a slab was cracked out, most likely by using a medieval "plug & feathers" device.

    This strange rock I found several years ago is located within a site overlooking a beautiful spring-water pool. This spot contains other stoneholes, too, though some may be more modern--a few of those farther away from the spring and the proposed "marker" stone.

    I just wanted to emphasize again, too, that I recently discovered that Runestone Park is situated right on this proposed direct line that runs between Duluth and the proposed marker near Wilmot. (So then, this site near Wilmot most likely represented the northernmost site of stoneholes and other accompanying site oddities along the Whetstone River.)

    Here's my bottom line about all this, and I hope you'll agree that it may be pertinent to the present discussion at hand: While traversing northward after leaving the Minnesota River, the Kensington Runestone party of men decided to leave the Chippewa River and walk inland several miles (about four). I'm theorizing that they left the river at a purposefully latitudinal point, chosen ahead of time...and this is represented by the site of Runestone Park.

    I have always felt that the KRS party left the KRS at Runestone Hill, believing Scandinavians would be returning to the same spot in the future. But why would they think this? The answer is, because if they had used exact, specific astronomical and/or astrolabe readings, which would have been used to calculate their precise latitude, they would have known where to leave the river and move inland a few miles...to Runestone Park, just far enough off the river highway to avoid detection because of noise and campfire smoke. (This is the same pattern that might be seen, if the defensive lookout rock shelter I photographed last year near Glenwood, may also be both Norse and medieval.)

    A few posters here may not like this, but if you don't mind, I'd like to also emphasize once again that Skrael Hill next to Runestone Hill has three very distinctive, aged, triangle-shaped stoneholes in as many rocks. An exhaustive study of ancient ley-lines in Europe revealed that many of these special direct-shot lines began or ended on hills, or knolls.

    I'm bringing these issues up for reconsideration, since we're talking about how adventurers may have gotten around in days-of-old. It appears that whomever came to visit far-inland America in this region back in medieval times really did have their stuff together when it came to getting around in a precise way. It only makes sense that these people would make "markers" of some kind along the way, after getting accurate astronomical readings.

    So, the location of Runestone Hill may be a "marking" of sorts, and the many medieval stoneholes there may have even preexisted the placing of the KRS. I believe the KRS was deposited at Runestone Park because they figured people would be coming back there. Why? Because it may have already been known (and even mapped) as a geographical marking spot...on this direct line between Duluth and the northernmost reach of the Whetstone River.

    Thanks for this "usually friendly" space to make these suggestions. I'm glad you keep troublesome trolls under control...it makes studying and trying to understand history so much more enjoyable, but especially as one tries to share. Though we disagree about a lot, I truly wish you a better measure of success than you've had already...but based on looking to God for guidance now, as a Freemason, if for no other reason. Peace.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Gunn (I assume),

      There is new information to come in this regard and I'll hold off on commenting on the Templar travels across the continent until then.

      I appreciate you feel this is a friendly space. I want to reiterate that I welcome those with differing opinions, but there is no reason it can't be done respectfully as this thread demonstrates.

      I know the trolls are watching and would love to jump in with their snarky comments, but we're all done with that now. For that reason, I highly doubt they'll be back and we can move forward with productive discourse.

      Delete
  42. Scott and Patrick,

    You've both rung some bells. I'll try to be brief and concise.

    Rhodon- If I'm looking at this map correctly is East, and "Continua" is West. Thanks Patrick! I couldn't tell what that word was, and intended to ask. Rhodon- Helical rising of Venus
    Continua-Follow to setting. Rhodon-Rose line of latitude for Venus???

    I recall reading a couple of books which claimed a "1 degree shift" was needed to make sense of Templar related map ciphers. At first glance, Roman Numerals stand out until one sees the " O O". I may be wrong but, I don't think the Romans used zero. When looking at the Roman Numeral V, I remembered that "V" also has a value of 6.(Need to find my source) For example, 15-XV could actually be 16.
    May be completely unrelated.

    This part may ramble. From What I understand, there's a 60 degree angle between the Pleiades and Sirius. If one were to first place a marker on the distant horizon, showing exactly where Sirius would rise, and aligning the observation point with the Pleiades overhead and the rising Sirius. Could they then time Sirius from horizon to marker? Could one calculate longitude this way?

    Best regards to ALL,

    Anthony Warren

    ReplyDelete
  43. Anthony, I don't think there is a zero in Roman numerals...good point!! Not sure on the map ciphers. They could time the stars like you laid out, but there is no difference in time in doing that measurement in Paris vice doing it in Newfoundland. They see the event happen at the same point in time after their respective local solar noon. I am not very good with Venus stuff. Capella, a magnitude 2, red-colored star is at an approximate 45 degree elevation in 1179. It is an easy latitude sail on a "rose line" when you have Capella sitting out west of you on the 45th degree of latitude night after night.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Does anyone else see the compass and square on this map, or is it just me?

    Anthony Warren

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anthony,

      Are you talking about the two Seal of Solomon symbols that are on the connecting ends of the split up Nova Scotia land mass?

      Delete
    2. Scott,

      No, One arm of the "compass" has "XLV XV Rhodon" written on it's extension from land to water. Look at the 3 dots. One appears to be the top of the "compass" and the other two dots mark the spots where the arms of the compass and square overlap.

      Do you see what I see???

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    3. Scott,

      This appears to be the same symbolism as one holding a crook and flail, crossing their arms, while holding crook and flail in a crossed "X". Therefore, One "X" created by the crossed arms, and the other "X" made by the crossed crook and flail. Sometimes, the stylized beard "hooks" the "C&F X".

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    4. Anthony,

      I do see what you're talking about, but I'm not sure there's anything significant there?

      Really hard to tell.

      Delete
    5. Scott,

      I'm thinking this could be the "Compass Rose" for the entire map. Incredibly, this appears related to the first line of the KRS.

      I made a comment a few days ago which hasn't appeared. Did it not go through, or did I say something wrong?

      Best regards,

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    6. Anthony,

      I apologize if your comment was lost. My company was hit with a Ransom virus and we lost email service for just over a week and your post might be in virtual who-knows-where unfortunately. Your posts are thoughtful, constructive and we appreciate them.

      Feel free to submit it again and I'll be glad to post it.

      Delete
  45. Mr. Wolter,

    Was wondering if the cache of artifacts supposedly found in the Grand Canyon might be a part of the Templar treasure. And if so, will the Smithsonian ever even acknowledge it has them? This comment is truly in the realm of fantasy land, but cannot account for the type of artifacts getting there other than a Templar expedition.


    Dan Uhrich

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dan,

      I honestly don't know what was found in the Grand Canyon, but my gut tells me that if something was found in a cave there it predates the Crusader period.

      Delete
  46. Scott,

    There are 2 more examples of the Compass and Square/AVM on the map. Both are made of 2 "X's" pushed together. The first one is in the date. The second in on a line marked "LXIV XX". Very clever, in my opinion. Most would just see 2 "X's".

    Best regards,

    Anthony Warren

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anthony,

      Now those double X's I do see! However, while they do make an early version of the compass and square, what I see with the side by side X's are "AVM."

      Delete
    2. Scott,

      The accuracy of Longitude/Prime Meridian on the "C" Documents Map

      The upper/center N/South line on the map above LVIII XX or 58° 20' marked near "un" "dues" "trios." The line seems to go over the most western part of land E/of the Miquelon Islands, Newfoundland at a Latitude/Longitude of N46° 57'14.9" W55° 59' 19.7"
      Longitude of W55° 59' 19.7" minus 58° 20’(LVIII XX) =
      -2° 21' 41" Difference.

      -2° 21' 41" East of the Greenwich Prime Meridian is Paris, France but not the “Paris Meridian” of E2° 20′ 14.025″ or not the “Rose Line” of N48° 51′ 3.5″  E2° 20′ 5.7″ all of these Meridians were established after 1179 A.D.

      The European headquarters of the Templars "The Villeneuve du Temple of Paris" was a compound established by the Knights Templar, located in Paris, near the ‘Place de Grève’, where they occupied a house given to them by King Louis VII in 1137.
      The headquarters was destroyed in 1808 it was located near the site of present day The Hôtel de Ville, Paris.-
      The Hôtel de Ville, Paris has a Latitude/Longitude of
      N48° 51' 21.9" E2° 21' 04.6”

      E2° 21' 04.6” Was this used by the Templars as the Prime Meridian in 1179 A.D.?

      -2° 21' 41" minus E2° 21' 04.6” = E36.4” difference or just
      .45 miles or ≅2376’ . Well within the walled in area of the Templar compound as seen on this map at this link

      http://www.templiers.org/paris-eng.php

      p@

      Delete
    3. Pasadena,

      Actually, in 1179, having the Templar headquarters in Paris as the prime meridian makes sense. Haven't looked to see if it lines up, but certainly a logical place if it does.

      Delete
    4. Pasadena P, I enjoyed reading your research on the longitude values and your comparison of them to the Templar headquarters there in Paris. You laid it out very concisely.

      Delete
    5. Ptolemy used the islands off the west coast of Africa, Cape Verde Islands area, as the Prime Meridian before 1179.

      Delete
  47. Patrick, Scott,
    Thanks you very much, Patrick.

    in the blog-December 12, 2016 at 5:55 PM Why did I use the Newfoundland spot of N46° 57'14.9" W55° 59' 19.7" and not N47 00' 00'' W55° 59' 19.7? The line XLVII would have matched the N47° on the "C" doc map.
    Go west 221 miles to the spot of "quatra" it has a coordinate N47° 02' 31.3" W60° 35' 56.0" just 3 statute miles North of the N46° 57'14.9" Latitude. 3 statute miles is one League.

    I have a "possible clue" for the 45° 00 and the 47 or (XLVII).
    At the Latitude of the Newfoundland coordinates of
    N46° 57'14.9"

    Definition of a League, any of several European units of measurement ranging from 2.4 to 4.6 statute miles (3.9 to 7.4 km).

    https://www.britannica.com/science/league-measurement

    Using the length of a League as 3 statute miles as in this conversion chart-

    http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/length/league.html

    From the 45° 00' or (XLV 00) Latitude measure up/north to the spot "quatra" it has a coordinate N47° 02' 31.3" W60° 35' 56.0"
    That distance is 141.02 statute miles ➗3 = 47
    Could these numbers on the “C” doc map be Leagues and the only Longitudes are W55° 59' 19.7" (Newfoundland location) and
    LXXIV XVII "ovest" or 76° 38.5’19.7 both using the Paris Meridian.

    LXXIV XVII ovest or 76° 38.5’19.7 is the entrance to the Great Lakes at the St. Lawrence River.
    To everyone who reads this blog-using the numbers as Leagues, any idea on the other numbers or what they might lead to?

    p@




    ReplyDelete
  48. Hello Scott,

    In my missing post, I postulated the numbers 8, and 22 as being part of a fill in the blank equation based upon dividing the circle.

    360 / 8 = 45
    360 / 16 = 22.5("close enough", I stated)

    45 and 16 seem relevant to the lines marked XLV XV Rhodon, and XLVI, XLVII. I thought maybe the 3 dots were for triangulating a 45,16 line.

    I'd also stated that I'd remembered "Rhodon" was Greek for rose. This makes a total of 4 languages used. French, Latin, English, and Greek. I further postulated that Rhodon being written on the apparent arm of compass, could possibly indicate this was the Compass Rose.

    While waiting for a response from Scott, I pulled up Nova Scotia, and the Bay of Fundy. I decided to focus on the location of the 3 dots which mark out the C&S on the map. I was shocked to discover one of them to apparently be Oak Island. While I was considering the name "Dartmouth" as Dart Mouth, like radiating spokes, the name "Green Oaks" caught my eye. I immediately started tearing through several boxes of books. I'd heard that name before. Finally, I found my copy of "Templar Meridians" by, William F. Mann. As I began rereading it, I found that he states "Rhodon is Greek for rose"(Mann, page 13)

    When I got to page 38, my jaw nearly hit the floor. I found the practical application for the numbers 8 and 22.

    "...first selected a center point and then drew a circle around it. He then bisected the line four times, drawing sixteen lines from the center to the perimeter at angles of 22.5 degrees. Having done this, he could construct a square by connecting the point where every fifth radius me the circle's perimeter-in other words, he created a square within the circle..."(Mann, 38)

    Now take another look at the "square" on the map.

    The Newport Tower could have been laid out in the same way. Does anyone know how many posts held up the tower's ambulatory? I'd heard that post holes had been found around the structure. I don't recall the number of holes, or if they truly exist, or not.

    Anthony Warren

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anthony,

      My understanding is there were wooden post holes roughly 16 feet from each of the two stone columns that were excavated. Therefore, there should be six more still in the ground.

      Delete
  49. Anthony, William Mann's book is full of interesting information. The 360/16 = 22.5 degrees geometric progression is the projection basis for the circular portolan nautical charts. The 16 point compass rose is the depiction. In other words, the landform positioning on a circular portolan chart reflects the actuall azimuthal orientation from point A to point B. The circular mappa mundi maps used this same concept, azimuth from point A to point B in their positioning of landforms. For fun, see if you can find the allegorically expressed geographic coordinates on the KRS. They are there. The KRS tells us where it was located, and it also tells us the distance back to where the ten men and ships are at.
    ----------------
    I am going to focus tonight's research on the allegory thread that was written by John Kirtland Wright...

    Peter Abelard
    "Among the outstanding theologians of the twelfth century was Peter Abelard (1079-1142), whose tragic history is well remembered. In his Expositio in hexaemeron, Sermones, and more famous Sic et non we find a few scattered observations of a geographical character. Though Abelard's fame rests upon the keenness of his reasoning and the destructive brilliance of his dialectic, his position when dealing with the Works of the Six Days was that of mystic.3 We shall have occasion to see how the geographical passages from his works reveal a love of elaborate allegory (pp. 89-90)"

    Wright, John Kirtland. The Geographical Lore of the Time of the Crusades: A Study in the History of Medieval Science and Tradition in Western Europe. New York: Dover Publications, 1965. [Digital version of 1925 edition available from https://archive.org/details/geographicallore00wrig]

    ReplyDelete
  50. Keep up the great work Mr. Wolter. I love how you challenge the status quo and bring real research to the table. History without a doubt needs to be rewritten and is definitely not all that it seems to be. I too believe that the Templars/Freemasons recouped the treasure long ago and could of easily dispersed the relics throughout lodges all over the world, don't keep all your eggs in one basket right? Would love to see you work with Dan Brown someday seeing how his Lost Symbol book is right up your alley. As a Arlington, VA native I can honestly say that masonic symbols are all over the DC area. Washington DC is the New Jerusalem built on a land of swamp. Hard to believe that the city of Alexandria, VA doesn't have a direct connection to the City of Alexandria in Egypt, as well as the city of Rosslyn, VA not being in direct correlation with Roslyn Chapel in Scotland. I always wondered if the "beltway" surrounding the DC area lined up with Orion's belt in anyway. Again, keep up the great work Mr. Wolter and don't pay attention to the trolls, there is a new sheep born everyday.

    Patrick K.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Patrick,

      Thanks for the encouragement which is nice to hear. Don't you also find it interesting the closest big town to Kensington is Alexandria?

      Delete
    2. Scott,

      Don't you also find it interesting that Alexandria, Ontario is almost directly between Montreal and Ottawa? Or that the closest big town to Paris, Ontario is Cambridge, Ontario?

      Delete
    3. The names of cities, street and other public places is no accident. They were named as such for a reason and often that reason has to do with the influence of Freemasons and members of other orders in a position to have such influence.

      Delete
    4. I've been most interested in the names of states. For instance, we're told "Kansas" means "South Wind People". The same meaning is given for "Arkansas". There was an ancient god known as "Kanza" or "Kansa" and he had a city called...Wait for it...Kansa's City. I'm just not sure if Kansa prefers to hang out in his city in Missouri, or Kansas.

      Anthony Warren

      Delete
    5. Scott,

      so you're saying that Templars/Freemasons founded the country of Canada too?

      Delete
    6. I never said that; but they're influence is all across Canada. Look at the Nova Scotia (New Scotland) flag. See anything interesting?

      Delete
    7. Not really. A reversal in colour of the Scottish flag combined with the Scottish royal arms. Nothing to suggest any credible link to Templars or Masons.

      Delete
    8. Raparee,

      Actually, you are wrong about that, but you can read about these connections in my new book. The flag of Nova Scotia is directly connected to the Scottish Templars and to Scottish Freemasonry.

      Delete
    9. I'll see if I an get a copy of your book at the library. Hopefully your 'connection' is more than "there's a red lion facing west".

      Delete
    10. Raparee,

      The flag of Nova Scotia has the colors (blue, yellow and white; along with the red of the Templar's) and the Lion Rampant symbol of Jerusalem. The colors originated in Egypt and the Templar's adopted these symbols when they occupied the Temple Mount inside the Walled City during the Crusades. To find them on the flag of Nova Scotia (New Scotland) is rather curious don't you think?

      Take a look at the colors of the dominantly blue Temple with the gold dome. The book you want is “Akhenaten to the Founding Fathers”, but I develop this thread further in the new book.

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    11. Is it curious to find elements of Scottish flags in the Nova Scotia flag? No. Not really when remembering that Nova Scotia was a Scottish colony. Our flag now (since 1858 -- officially since 2013) is a reflection of the provinces Scottish heritage, not some indication of Templar/Mason connection.

      I'd also like to point out that the flag of Luxembourg also has all those characteristics that you attribute to the Templars. Not to mention the Limburg area of the Netherlands.

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    12. Raparee,

      You are correct about the other flags, but are being naïve if you don’t consider the role the Templar’s played in the pre-Columbian history of Nova Scotia. They were all over that place and beyond.

      The Templar influence is hidden in plain sight in the symbolism of other countries flags as well. Remember they were, and still are, an international order/corporation.

      You need to look beyond what is right in front of you. The signs, symbols and tokens of ancient history is all around us. You first have to open your mind to see it.

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    13. I think it would be naïve to blindly accept unsubstantiated claims of Templar travel to Nova Scotia. None of the claims being made regarding Templars in NS (Oak Island, Annapolis Royal, and especially Parada's malarkey in New Ross)have yielded a jot of credible, verifiable evidence confirming their presence. NOT ONE. Lots of speculation, but nothing to back it up. Funny that a group of people can spend so much time in an area, and not leave any sign of their presence. I mean, how could what would have to have been a large group of people, travel through the New World without spreading disease through the First Nation's populations?
      It's not about being open minded, it's about not being so gullible as to accept extraordinary claims without any proof at all.

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    14. Raparee,

      First, there is plenty of evidence in Nova Scotia in the form of stone structures, dozens of carvings and petroglyphs as well as oral stories and DNA in the indigenous people. Does the Overton Stone not scream Templar to you? They have also talked about disease brought by white people across the water that killed many of their people.

      In fairness, to you there is much documentation that hasn't been made public yet, but will be soon.

      If I were you I'd try and take a more neutral position on this instead of being overly negative. Just saying...

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    15. Does the Overton Stone scream "Templar" to me? No. No it doesn't. It's more likely Portuguese, First Nations, or the work of some bored tourist like the "rune stone" in Mahone Bay. I will follow your advice and maintain a neutral position until the analysis of the Overton Stone is complete before I make any statements as to who carved it. To do otherwise may be an indication that a person has a tendency towards confirmation bias.

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    16. Virtually all of the early Portuguese explorer ship captains with Templar’s or with the Order of Christ after the putdown in 1307. The order wasn’t officially disbanded in Portugal until 1835. However, that style of cross isn’t necessarily a Portuguese symbol, but it is Templar. The Overton stone is just one of many examples.

      The First Nation’s symbols are certainly there as would be expected as the Templar’s absolutely aligned ideologically with the Mi’kmaq and other native cultures.

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  51. Whatever the origin of the map, isn't it significant that it did contain a location (The hatch) that was unknown to anybody?

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    1. Schwenko,

      Actually, the hatch was known. The map didn't lead them there; it just happened to be near it and they made that connection.

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    2. The Lagina brothers didn't know about it, nor anyone else associated with the tv show. Who knew about it (besides Zena Haplern)?
      And it seems like the map did lead them there.
      In any case your website/blog is fascinating and I will need to spend much more time reading it!!

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    3. Schwenko,

      I hate to break it to you, but what is portrayed on television shows like this one isn't always true. I'm afraid this is probably one of those times.

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  52. Zena shared parts of her research with some, to answer the question. She made a part relevant to Oak Island available and asked to save the rest till she has finished her research and published.

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    Replies
    1. Krin,

      That is 100% correct. What people need to understand is the Oak Island piece of Zena's research is but a fraction of the story and in my opinion the least interesting. Stay tuned as there is much more to come.

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  53. Hi Scott - I'm local to you (just around the corner!) and really enjoy your work. I'm wondering if you have ever spoken with Prof. Roderick Squires at the U of M during any of your research. He is an expert on establishing provenance for parcels of land and frequently serves as a lecturer and expert witness on the topic and, additionally, is fairly prolific writer on the topic...and an all around great guy. Keep up the good work!

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    Replies
    1. cjohnston,

      I have not spoken to Squires, but that might be a good idea. Thanks for the tip!

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