Monday, February 16, 2015

The Templar Families and Sheep

My next guest blogger is a name familiar to anyone who studies the Templars. If you don’t already own it, get Alan’s book, Sheep: The Remarkable Story of the Humble Animal that Built the Modern World. It is a fascinating read.

While traveling through France with us on the season finale, we stopped at the Commanderie d’Arville. There we discussed how important these humble animals were to the Templars and the entire history of Europe.

I'm delighted that Alan agreed to author this blog post.

- Blog post by Alan Butler February 16th 2015 

The names mentioned by Steve in his fascinating blog are ones I have seen so often as I have travelled up and down Britain on my own research. Knowledge of the interconnectedness of the bloodlines that funded the rise and success of the Templars has always been lacking, which is why it is so important the researchers such as Steve are spending so much time and effort filling in the gaps.

As Steve said in his blog it was almost a revelation to me on the America Unearthed shoot in France to hear him mention the Counts of Champagne. So often we researchers feel ourselves to be in a minority of one and it is the true importance of this little band of historians Scott has brought together that we can shine the light of our own respective findings on the same subjects. Following Steve’s blog it was an email comment from another of our band, Bill Mann in Canada that put me in mind of a Templar symbol we saw often on the shoot in France and of something that drew these great families together.

I remember years ago, when my attention first turned towards the Counts of Champagne and I began to understand what an amazing part they and the nobles to whom they were related had played, not only in Templarism but also in terms of the gradual growth of the modern world. Something all these families had in common, once William of Normandy had settled land upon them after he became King of England in 1066 was the importance they placed upon sheep and the wool they produced.

Indeed, part of William of Normandy’s desire to ‘be’ King of England was because of its wealth, much of which had come, right back to Roman times from the raising of sheep. Britain generally is very suited to this animal and they still thrive on our moors and uplands. Those nobles who fought with William at Hastings were given vast land holdings and a large part of the wealth they drew from their English and eventually Scottish lands stemmed from large flocks of sheep.

The Counts of Champagne, through their association with the Cistercians and then also the Templars certainly did not invent sheep husbandry but they turned it into an art form. It is no coincidence that one of the main emblems of the Knights Templar was the device known as the Agnus Dei. From a Christian perspective Agnus Dei means the Lamb of God and of course in this context it referred to Jesus but I have always been sure that this picture of a lamb carrying a cross was much more than a religious symbol to the Knights Templar. It demonstrated in no uncertain terms where a great deal of Templar money came from.

At Cistercian Abbeys all over Europe, but especially in Britain and also on Templar farms, of which there were once many hundreds, countless thousands of sheep were bred on marginal land that was fitted for little else. Their wool was a yearly cash crop and after having been cleaned, spun and woven, often in Flanders, most of it found its way to a series of great markets that were deliberately set up by the Counts of Champagne. These were known as the Champagne Fairs. It was a win – win situation for everyone concerned. The Cistercian order of monks spread across Europe in record time, whilst the Templars eventually became a vast network, with fighting being only one strand of their raison d’etre.

All of this came as a gradual revelation to me in my first years of research but I eventually began to realise that what had happened represented something far more significant than a new departure in animal rearing. The very existence of wool, its importance and the high prices people were willing to pay for the best wool began to undermine the very foundations of feudal government in Europe. The wool trade was international. For example raw wool from Britain was worked into cloth in Flanders, after which some of it was sold via the Champagne Fairs to merchants in Italy. There the woollen cloth was improved, ornamented and made into rich garments, some of which found their way back, via the Champagne Fairs to Britain.

Quite quickly it became almost impossible for Kings to control events in the way they had once done. Economic power passed down from the monarchs and the great Lords to merchants and even those who were breeding the sheep. New wealth from wool bought luxury goods, books and education. A new internationalism developed to such an extent that the feudal genii could never be put back into its bottle. It is my absolute contention that this was no chance consequence and I firmly believe that the changes that began to take place in Europe and which eventually led to the Renaissance were deliberately engineered in the palaces of Champagne and other French regions as early as the middle of the 11th century.

Back in the days when I was co-operating with Canadian writer Stephen Dafoe we coined the term ‘Templar Inc’ because we began to see a vast international company, the huge assets of which were constantly being used to foster more trade and to create new opportunities. Medieval kings did not understand how such a system worked, which made it all the more annoying for the French King Phillip IV when after 1307 he never found the vast chests of Templar gold he had expected.

In their day the Templars were responsible to no authority other than that of the Pope, and since even the Pope was invariably in their debt, they had every opportunity to change the world in which they lived and operated. But none of this would have been remotely possible were it not for the sheep that in the form of the Agnus Dei they kept as their major symbol throughout their existence.

This is of course a very short version of a long and fascinating story, because it was the sheep that as good as built the modern world, long after the days of those Medieval Lords. It might come as a surprise to some readers of this blog to learn that the sheep also had a very significant part to play in the founding of a free United States. Much is made of tea taxes as a spur to revolution but far more important was the fact that farmers in the American colonies were prohibiting from breeding better sheep and were prevented from importing new bloodstock from Europe on pain of lengthy imprisonment. To men such as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, who were farmers themselves, this was an intolerable situation and a major stepping stone on the path to the Declaration of Independence.

If any of the readers of this blog happen to be in London any time soon, they might want to take themselves to the Temple district. This is now a great centre for legal training, though of course the original Templar Church can still be seen there. Even today, over seven hundred years after the Knights Templer were ‘supposed’ to have been destroyed, the sheep of the Agnus Dei can still be seen looking down from practically every building – as if those white-mantled knights with their illustrious family names never went away at all.


  1. That was really great, Alan. I enjoyed the way you focused on that one simple symbol, as a symbol with probable duel meaning. Maybe this is how it is with the Hooked X, too? Of course, the main idea, as you stated, is the representation of Christ as a it were, led to slaughter, willingly; hence the halo. But, then also the very importance of sheep to the Templars and Cistercians, and those others desiring to create a lot of wealth.

    Perhaps this is what the medieval Scandinavian stonehole-makers had in mind when they used iron chisels to carve up a whole river area in South Dakota, right there in the area where oceanic waterways dwindle down and merge. Scott showed good evidence of this in his Hooked X book. But, going just a bit further in assessing the available evidences, I think they had a sort of "branding" system in mind, like the old cattle days. But, instead of a hot iron-to-hide to claim ownership of cattle, they used a particular petroglyph to claim the land within the boundaries of stoneholes they had made in rocks to show the dimensions of their "claim." Using this methodology, one could come back and claim the land associated with a cluster of stoneholes and a particular image, such as a drinking horn or a table knife or an owl.

    I think this medieval activity up here may have had to do with the prospects of farming, as well. The river in mind, the Whetstone River, is basically several miles away from and parallels a very large lake (Big Stone Lake), which would have placed the monks (or whomever) a required or "safe" distance away from a future large city on the lake. Monks would have required this distance, and I think this may be why the Whetstone River was chosen as a landing area...while also representing the place where oceanic waterways merge at the North/South Continental Divide. The heavily glaciated terrain with its many ponds and lakes is perfect for raising sheep. (I have some great photos of sheep grazing in this beautiful area.)

    If you come up the Mississippi and divert west on the Minnesota River, you could end up at this Whetstone River without once needing to portage. At the very northern part of the Whetstone River is a large white rock with a stonehole and a slab cracked out, and with what I think is a purposely flattened top. It is shaped exactly like a runestone in Gotaland with a similarly flattened top. I think this rock in SD is a sort of marker or standing stone to represent the northern-most reach of the Whetstone River landing area. At this site is a little valley that could easily be damned at a choke-point to create a small lake from a spring source. The water would be deep enough to raise fish year-round, and the water would be useful for raising sheep and for irrigation of plants for a quarter of a mile down the little valley.

    I couldn't help noticing that Runestone Hill, where the KRS was found, is basically surrounded by ponds of water, creating a moat-like setting. Geologist Winchell found a drainage spot NW of this area that probably eroded over several hundred years, so that the area around Runestone Hill was most likely more "watery" back then. Now I see that someone back in medieval times may have had the idea of creating a dam at Runestone Park, too, which could in part explain why a dozen stonehole rocks encircle the spot. But I think the location is more than that...more like an inland mapping feature, similar to a ley-line hub.

    Anyway, Alan, I can see how sheep may have figured heavily into any "planned" medieval activity up here in America's hinterland. I think Vinlanders and Greenlanders both knew about this far inland, circular waterway meeting spot in SD, which may have predated the placing of the KRS; but nobody made it back due to European disease and/or Native American resistance. As you know, the Mandans came into being right next door. :-)

  2. ~The Lamb of God symbol as shown was inscribed in stone and artfully accented in color. This, of course, became an early icon for trading, and also a metaphor used in Christendom. Does any organization have trademark rights for its usage?~

  3. Hello Alan,

    This is Anthony. I'd traded emails with you until, I somehow had my account deleted by a small group of zealots, who post religious rants in response to Science articles. Could you please, make your way to Steve's guest blog, and click on the video at the bottom. Once you're there, pause the video at 2:11. You'll see a familiar "light box". I would love to expound upon this connection to Rosslyn Chapel but, I'd just be regurgitating your work. Would love to know what you think. Thank you again for opening my eyes to the sexual symbolism. I'd sent yourself, and Scott rough pictures of Mona Lisa's "dirty secret". I never would've realized "it" was there, without your works, and the brilliance of your mind.

    Best regards,


  4. Hi Alan!! Very interesting blog post! I am very interested in the subjects you contribute to on America Unearthed. I have read a lot of your books and Scotts, and really hope there is another season-there is so much more out there for us "lay learners" to discover. I hope these posts can get passed on to the History Channel so they can see how many of us want more!

  5. Alan,

    Stonehenge-51° 10′ 43.84″ N, 1° 49′ 34.28″ W

    All these Templar spots in Belgium are near the same Latitude as Stonehenge, UK -Wiiskerke,Leffinge,Jabbeke, and the Templar Cistercian Abby at Boudelo (Kline-Sanaai), Belgium)1197 A.D. is exactly on that Latitude!
    Do you think they are all related somehow?


    1. to Scott,
      The Cistercian “Coat of Arms” has 2 Shepherds Crosiers on it. Also Bernard de Claivaux was some time depicted with a Shepard's Crosier.
      Shepherd= caretaker of sheep
      Maybe the Cistercians and Bernard were “caretakers of a Secret”


    2. Pasadena,

      I think it's pretty safe to say the Cistercians and Bernard ere sitting on lots of secrets!

  6. Great blog post! Sheep were indeed important!
    Ancient Aliens is returning for its 8th season on H2!
    America Unearthed will soon get the good word
    i feel! I am psyched! Guest bloggers are a great idea!
    Kudos to Alan & Steve for these new insights! i'm
    thinking many of the Symbols are layered & do cross
    reference! Medievals liked codes, and riddles. we
    moderns are the end result of mass media standardization.
    if we keep this up, we'll create the Symbology textbook
    Dan Brown hypothesized in his best seller! :) for real!!!!!!!

  7. have you ever checked out the viking norsk docks by caves in the turtle mountains of north dakota

  8. Lost Wood,

    I've heard about these Norse docks, the problem is the water levels a thousand years ago wouldn't have been in the area I've been referred to. 10,000 years ago, but not during the Norse exploration era.

  9. Scott... those water levels hint at extremely ancient almost Ice Age explorers...

    if a cultural continuity, an oral tradition, or extremely ancient structures were

    left behind, examined, understood... or rebuilt! how often do we see site layers...

    1. I'll reserve judgment until I see it.



      "Posted: Thursday, June 5, 2008 12:00 am
      by Arland O. Fiske
      If anyone should seriously suggest that Norsemen once set up camp in North Dakota’s Turtle Mountains, the anticipated response would be, “You’ve got to be joking.” But before you draw your final conclusions, you should hear what John Molberg wrote in his little book entitled “Vikings!”
      I’d heard about his discoveries and wanted to learn more about them. Molberg sent me a copy of his book and I found it interesting. I’m not an authority on geology and archaeology, but I’ve read too much about the Norsemen to hastily doubt their abilities.

      What is it that Molberg claimed might have been? Simply this, that the 14th century Norsemen may have brought their boats to the Turtle Mountains on the North Dakota-Manitoba border. What evidence did he offer? Some granite boulders. Not just ordinary rocks, but rocks with holes cut in them. He concluded that the holes were not made by nature, but by man.
      He also believed that the boulders that weighed several tons were not hauled in from some other place, nor did an early settler drill holes with the idea of blasting them with dynamite. Since the slopes were to steep for farming, he didn’t think that the rocks were dug up to clear land.
      What were the rocks used for them? Molberg suggested that they might have been mooring stones into which the Norsemen put a pin to anchor their boats. Altogether, five such stones were found in the area. That would have required the water level from the Glacial Lake Souris to have covered the present site of Bottineau and lapped right up into the foothills of the Turtle Mountains. The boulders were approximately the same elevation, about 2,000 feet. The book has photographs of the boulders.
      Equally fascinating are photos of a stone arched cave in the western foothills of the Turtle Mountains. No mortar had been used to hold the stones in place. Near the cave was the stone foundation of a building that had once stood there. The cave is eight feet wide, 13 feet long and 56 inches high. Since the rear of the cave had fallen in, it must have been much larger at one time. Could this have been a Viking shelter?
      Besides the unusual rocks, a Roman sword had been found at the eastern edge of the Turtle Mountains near St. John, N.D., in the late 1960s. An ax head was found a couple of miles across the border into Canada. It bears the shape of a Viking battle-ax. A chisel was also found. As if that were not enough, he also noted that a grave site was found in the area originally thought to have been Indian graves. Professor Edward Milligan, a recognized authority on Native American culture, found them to be different from anything that he had seen.
      Mooring stones have been found in many places like those believed to have been used by Norsemen for anchoring their boats. Molberg made some serious attempts to check out his theory on these boulders. He consulted the faculty at the North Dakota State University in Bottineau to offer their critique. He did his homework on the Norse history too.
      Molberg’s findings and theories are by no means an open and shut case. One of the problems is the 500 foot differential in elevation between the Glacial Lake Souris level and the level of the spillway into the Sheyenne River. He had an explanation for this too. Based on Charles Hapgood’s theory of a shift in the earth’s crust, is it possible, that this had caused a change in the elevation of the Turtle Mountains in the last 600 years? We know that earth is not a solid mass, as was supposed a few hundred years ago. It’s a turbulent planet, full of life. The ocean floors are constantly shifting and earthquakes occurring."

    3. SCOTT, this was online, and "Lost Wood" could have
      read it a while back... i Googled the "info" up above...
      it looks like this has been debated and talked about!


      Chapter 693 — ‘Vikings in the Turtle Mountains’?
      Posted: Thursday, June 5, 2008 12:00 am
      by Arland O. Fiske

      How might the Norsemen have traveled to the Turtle Mountains? Molberg suggested that they came across the Atlantic (perhaps from Iceland) into the St. Lawrence River to the Great Lakes, the Chicago River, the Mississippi River, Lake Traverse, Lake Agassiz, the Sheyenne River and into Lake Souris. Or might they have traveled from Hudson Bay via the Souris River to these mooring points?
      Molberg asked what happened to the Viking who may have come to the Turtle Mountains before Columbus’s time? Obviously, they moved on. To where? He wondered if they were the reason why some Mandan Indians had blue eyes and a fair complexion. While perhaps an overworked theory, it sounds as good as some of the ideas I’ve heard.
      What can we say about these discoveries? Tempting as it might be to declare these theories as facts, we cannot and Molberg didn’t. But together with the vast amount of data popping up all over the New World, it certainly suggests that many feet have stepped across this land before we arrived. Perhaps someday we’ll have more archaeological and geological finds.
      How should we interpret them? There is no printed manuscript accompanying them. And if there were, it surely would evoke disagreement, like the Kensington Stone. Unfortunately, Molberg died at the time I was in communication with him about his theory.
      Lloyd Heuesers, a former science teacher at Central High School in Minot, discussed Molberg’s theories with me and gave me some maps of the Glacial Lake Souris that I had not previously seen. They make Molberg’s hypothesis seem even more interesting.
      In a time when we have such excellent possibilities for sharing knowledge, I have hopes that we will get reasonable answers to many of our questions. Molberg wrote: “Naturally, one would like to definite proof; we will keep looking for a 14th century sign say, “Ole was here.”


      there is a photo of a stone arch near dunseith

      carefully scroll down thru things... in this link!

      Viking Stone caves in the Turtle Mountains:
      Reply from Dick Johnson (68): Dunseith, ND

      Gary and Friends,

      In answer to Colette’s question, I think the stone arch cave
      northwest of Bottineau is still there, although I’ve heard some more
      deterioration has taken place. Nature continues to try to reclaim
      anything men change. There is a sign along the highway north of Carbury
      that points out an historic site to the northeast. I can only assume it
      is directing attention to the cave, although I haven’t checked it out to
      see. One more thing for my ‘bucket list’. Late last night I received an
      email telling me another mooring stone had been found much further east
      along the foothills. This one is in Rolette County and east yet of Butte
      St. Paul. This one was also checked out and documented by Ed Milligan
      and crew. I think Colette’s depiction of the Vikings being a hardy bunch
      of explorers really sums it up. It would appear that they had little
      fear of what they might encounter–that would certainly be an advantage
      in traveling into unchartered areas. The Spaniards thought they would
      sail off the end of the Earth because it was flat. I guess the Vikings
      hadn’t heard the news from Spain! Thanks Gary!



    "Officials are considering removing the Judges' Woolsacks in the Lords because the chamber is becoming overcrowded, it has emerged.
    During the State Opening of Parliament, the woolsacks are occupied by senior judges. It is intended to be a reminder of mediaeval Parliaments, when judges attended to offer legal advice.
    During normal sittings of the House, any Member of the Lords may sit on a woolsack.

    The tradition of the Woolsack dates back to the reign of Edward III when the wool trade was one of the most important parts of the economy.

    As of the beginning of March, there were 761 peers eligible to vote - 23 more than in 2007.
    David Cameron is expected to announce a list of around 60 new peers this year.
    In a House of Lords written question Lord Stoddart of Swindon asked whether officials “will consider removing the Judges' Woolsacks in order to reorganise the seating in the Chamber to accommodate the rising number of Members”.
    Lord Sewel replied: “I will consider the proposal regarding the Judges' Woolsacks and intend to put the suggestion before the Administration and Works Committee for further consideration.”
    Lord Sewel added that he had “no other suggestions” for ways to accommodate more peers but asked for suggestions from other Members.
    It comes amid a growing row over the number of peers in the House of Lords.
    The Government was earlier this month heavily defeated in the Lords in the continuing tussle over reform of the Upper House.
    Peers stepped back from triggering a possible constitutional crisis by trying to block the introduction of any new members.
    However, they agreed by 217 votes to 45, majority 172, to urge the Government to exercise restraint over any new appointments.
    Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, a Labour spokesman, pointed to “disturbing rumours” that the Government planned to appoint dozens of new members in the next few days or weeks, urged peers to act now on “sensible housekeeping” changes.
    Former Liberal leader Lord Steel of Aikwood had been planning to move a motion effectively blocking the appointment of any new peers until a proper mechanism for allowing members to retire had been implemented.
    But he told peers he was accepting an amendment, later passed by the House, urging “restraint” in the appointment of peers instead.
    The amendment, by Lord Hunt, also called on the Government to support proposals to allow members to retire permanently from the House and exclude infrequent attenders and those convicted of serious offences.
    Lord Steel acknowledged that despite an appeal to Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, his own backbench Bill on Lords reform had no “realistic chance” of success.
    He said fundamental reform of the House was years away and so it was sensible to adopt “housekeeping measures” ensuring there was an “exit strategy” for peers.
    Lord Steel said the current voluntary retirement scheme, which has been taken up by only two peers, was simply an extension of “leave of absence” - not a proper retirement scheme at all.
    “The House should say bluntly to the Government, the House of Commons and the public that we are keen to see this modest housekeeping change so we reduce our numbers, reduce our costs.
    “We do need to deal with this matter now rather than letting many more years go before we engage in sensible housekeeping.”
    He said there were “considerable tensions” arising from the size of the Lords and a consensus for some progress to be made.
    While there was a need for “fresh blood” the current size of the House was sustainable and likely to spiral upwards. “What is disturbing is that there are rumours that the Government is intending to appoint dozens of new peers in the next few days or weeks.”

  11. I haven't yet read Alan's book, he might have said
    a few things about this very old Medieval custom!

    History of the Woolsack and England's Wool Trade
    The Woolsack in the House of Lords

    The Woolsack is the seat of the Lord Speaker in the House of Lords Chamber. The Woolsack is a large, wool-stuffed cushion or seat covered with red cloth. It was introduced by King Edward III (1327-77) and originally stuffed with English wool as a reminder of England's traditional source of wealth - the wool trade - and as a sign of prosperity.

    England's wool industry dates back over 2000 years and woollen cloth has been a prized export since Roman times. During the 12th century wool became England's greatest natural asset as a major source of revenue through exports of both woven cloth and raw wool.

    England's textile industry and the manufacturing of wool products grew during the 15th century, and significant developments in the industrial revolution were linked to the processing of wool. The Framework Knitting machine, invented in 1589, was the first major stage in the mechanization of the textile industry.

    It wasn't until the 18th century that sheep breeding began to focus on meat rather than wool quality. Despite the rise of synthetic fabrics during the 20th century wool has remained an important and unique product. The General Assembly of the United Nations proclaimed 2009 to be the International Year of Natural Fibres.

    Wool is now being recognised as a uniquely versatile and sustainable product. The diversity of Britain's 60 and more different sheep breeds is a valuable resource in the 21st century world.

    A clip of Adam Henson's visit to the House of Lords shown on BBC2 in March 2011 as part of Lambing Live series 2 can be seen here

    The Campaign for Wool - The History of Wool

    Wikipedia - Wool, and Stocking Frame

    The British Wool Marketing Board - British Sheep and Wool

    The History of British Wool

    Traditions of Parliament

    The Worshipful Company of Woolmen has been in existance since before 1180 and is still an active Company today.

    Copyright © 2011-2015 Jane Cooper

  12. folks... I checked this out at! Alan's book talks about the U.K
    Parliament on pages 54 to 57, and the word "woolsack" is used, but isn't in
    the index of "Sheep: The Remarkable Story of the Humble Animal that Built
    the Modern World" ...I carefully looked, given this unique & and old custom!


    Baa, baa, black sheep,

    Have you any wool?

    Yes, sir, yes, sir,

    Three bags full;

    One for the master,

    One for the dame,

    And one for the little boy

    Who lives down the lane.

    Some researchers believe this rhyme was written simply to encourage young children to imitate the sounds of animals when they are learning how to talk. But there’s a far more interesting and historic background to the poem. The version we all grew up with was, in fact, altered to make it more pleasant for young ears. The poem had a different last line until at least 1765, when it was included in Mother Goose’s Melody, published by John Newbery. The last line originally went like this: “And none for the little boy who cries in the lane.”

    The surprising story behind this rhyme starts, unsurprisingly enough, with sheep. Sheep have been extremely valuable to the English economy for well over a thousand years. The wool trade in England was already thriving by August 1086 when the Domesday Book recorded that many flocks across the country numbered more than two thousand sheep. By the late twelfth century, sheep farming was big business and towns such as Guildford, Northampton, Lincoln, and York had become thriving centers of production. By 1260, some flocks consisted of as many as seven or eight thousand sheep, each tended by a dozen full-time shepherds, and English wool was regarded as the best in the world. But as the cloth workers of Belgium and France were far more skilled than the English at producing the finished article, much of the wool produced was exported to Europe, where the raw material was dyed and woven into high-quality cloth.

    When Edward I returned from his crusading in 1272 to be crowned king, he set about the type of reforms his father, Henry III, had been unable to achieve. England had a growing number of wealthy wool merchants, chiefly in the form of the monasteries, and thanks to the quality and reliability of English wool, an increasing number of eager buyers in the Italians and the Flemish, who dominated European business at the time. Naturally this also led to a growing number of traders and exporters and a great deal of money flowing into England on a regular basis. This, in turn, meant Edward was able to impose new taxes on the exports of wool to fund his military campaigns and keep the royal coffers topped up. In 1275, the Great Custom was introduced in the shape of a royal tax of six shillings and eight pence per wool sack – approximately one-third of the price of each sack. It was this wool tax that is said to be the basis of “Baa, Baa, Black Sheep”: one-third of the price of each sack must go to the king (the master), two-thirds to the Church or the monasteries (the dame), and none to the actual shepherd (the little boy who cries in the lane). Rather than being a gentle song about sharing things out fairly, it’s a bitter reflection on how unfair things have always been for working folk throughout history.

    During this period of great success (for the ruling classes, at any rate), England’s export of wool nearly doubled from 24,000 sacks to 47,000 sacks per year, and the money raised largely funded the Hundred Years’ War with the French that dominated the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. To this day, the Lord Speaker in the House of Lords (successor to the Lord Chancellor’s role) sits on a sack made of wool, first introduced during the fourteenth century by the third consecutive Edward to rule England, Edward III.



    DATES: 1874-1976

    SIZE: 5 linear feet


    Edward Archibald Milligan was born on June 14, 1903, at Michigan, North Dakota, the son of Robert and Emma (von Evers Gennamt Behme) Milligan. He attended Mayville Teachers College in 1927, and then became a teacher of history and anthropology at the North Dakota School of Forestry in Bottineau, North Dakota from 1927-1934. Milligan conducted archaeological and ethnological research among American Indians in North Dakota from 1934- 1940.

    Milligan's teaching, writing, and research centered around the history of American Indians in general, and the tribes of North Dakota in particular. In pursuit of this interest he was also associated with several anthropological digs in the Upper Midwest. He also served in an official capacity on several boards and commissions, including the North Dakota Indian Affairs Commission.
    Edward Milligan died in 1977.

    (Edward A Milligan who authored the Viking book looks like he wrote to
    William Duncan Strong, whose ideas influenced the way FDR shook up
    the Bureau of Indian Affairs in the New Deal 1930s. I am indeed curious
    and am now wondering WHEN the stone archway was built and by who.)

    William Duncan Strong's early interest was in zoology; but, while an undergraduate at
    the University of California, he was brought into anthropology under the influence of
    Alfred Louis Kroeber. He conducted archeological and ethnological field research in
    several areas of the New World, including Labrador, southern California, Honduras, and
    Peru. Strong was the first professionally trained archeologist to focus on the Great Plains,
    and it was there that he applied the so-called direct historical method, working from
    known history in interpreting archeological sites. His work in all these areas are
    represented by notebooks, diaries, specimen catalogues, maps, and photographs.
    Strong spent the majority of his professional life affiliated with various universities and
    taught many anthropologists who became influential in their own right. His students
    included Loren Eiseley, Waldo R. Wedel, Joseph Jablow, Oscar Lewis, John Landgraf,
    Dorothy Keur, David Stout, Charles Wagley, Eleanor Leacock, John Champe, Albert C.
    Spaulding, Victor Barnouw, John M. Corbett, Walter Fairservis, and Richard B.
    Woodbury. Strong preserved the student papers by some of these anthropologists as well
    as their correspondence with him.
    Strong influenced American anthropology by his service in professional societies. He
    served as president of the American Ethnological Society, the Institute of Andean
    Research, and the Society for American Archaeology. He was the director of the
    Ethnogeographic Board (his journal from his tenure as director is in the papers) and
    chairman of the Committee on Basic Needs of American Archaeology. In this latter
    capacity, Strong was involved in establishing a program to salvage archaeological sites
    before they were destroyed by public works. Strong served as the anthropological consultant to the Bureau of Indian Affairs during the Roosevelt administration and
    advised on new directions to be taken in Indian Service policy.
    Strong's papers include correspondence, field notes, diaries, newspaper clippings,
    teaching notes and student papers, manuscripts of his writings, writings by other authors,
    papers from the various organizations in which he served, maps, and a considerable
    number of photographs from his field work. The materials date from 1902 to 1965, with
    most of the materials being from 1927 to 1955.
    Strong's papers reflect his professional life, but there is little personal material.

    Box 11

    (Includes C. Hart Merriam, Walter E. Militzer, Glen Miller, Kenneth C.
    Mills, and Edward A. Milligan.)

  14. Watching TV this morning, I couldn't help noticing that Oscar is sporting a medieval 2-handed sword, not unlike that portrayed by the Westford Knight. Curious, I ran a check and found out that the Oscar sword is generally described as a "crusader" sword. I found online an image of a medieval European sword that matches perfectly the image of the Westford Knight sword, and it is described as a "knightly" sword, which seems to indicate, then, that the Westford Knight was most likely indeed a knight...based on a description of the sword. This is not saying anything else about the Westford Knight image; only the sword.

    I went to see the image a few years ago, and also stopped at the nearby museum housing the Westford Boat Stone, which was found a few miles away from the museum/Westford Knight image. I recently studied this image again, and the ship appears to be a common design from England and round-about. A Scottish design would be similar, with the "crows nest" and long trailing wind-flag. I'm not so sure that it is a Scandinavian design from around 1400, but one can see that both petroglyphs (the sword and the boat) were "pecked-out" similarly, which seems to tie them together in time. Both the sword and the boat seem to have been carved at about the same time, representing a particular period, which also seems to be indicated by the nearby Newport Tower.

    However, the Copper Harbor, MI petroglyph of a "sailing boat" clearly indicates a Norse vessel, probably dating back close to the Viking period, since both ends of the boat are adorned with snake-heads, which were common for Norse vessels of the Viking period. The ship indicates pagan Norse beliefs, not Christian beliefs, but sometimes the two were co-mixed. I would guess that this Copper Harbor carving pre-dates the Kensington Runestone, and it indicates waterway travel far inland in America well before the time of Columbus. I don't believe this Copper Harbor petroglyph is of an ancient vessel, but rather instead it is clearly a Norse Viking-type craft...riveted boards, single mast, square rigging...and snake-heads adorning bow and stern. This also proves its authenticity, in my mind, since it is not generally known that snake-heads adorned some medieval Norse ships. I found this out by searching the internet; I found a Scandinavian stamp-collecting site which published this information (click on my name and visit the pertinent page).

    I see that things are heating up about the origin and history of the hooked X.... The more facts that are known about it, the closer we will come to the truth about the medieval use of this enigmatic symbol being used here in America, both on the East Coast and far inland, in about the middle of North America!

  15. Hello Alan,

    I'm only bring up the following idea because of wool. I've never been able to confirm it but, I've heard the original material on a pool table was "wool and not felt". From what I understand, ancient people swore their oath to the Deity by, placing their hand on an equilateral triangle set upon a double cube altar. This is exactly what is seen on a pool table when the balls are racked. As you know, there is one line, where the angles between the Solstices make this angle. If the two end pockets are taken as "The Pillars of the Porch" and the black and white dot as the spot where Solstice lines cross, the symbolism should start popping out. This same dot is where the yellow ball(Sun) is placed. The same yellow ball which completes a truncated pyramid. If this is the case, the black and white dot, is the same as the "Blazen Star" symbolism. There are 18 diamonds around the pool table. 18 being a Lunar number. This could invoke the 4 station stones at Stonehenge. From what I understand, the only place on Earth where the Sun and Moon create a perfect rectangle, and anywhere else is a parallelogram.

    Cue ball- Moon
    Yellow- Sun
    Blue- Earth
    Red- Mars

    So I have to ask...Do you think a pool table could be an astronomical teaching device? Used to chart a horoscope? A calendar???

    The diamond shape of a 9-ball rack should ring bells too.

    Best regards,


    BTW- I can't wait to hear what you think about the light boxes at Castle Acre.

    1. Hi Anthony

      Whilst I can definitely confirm that pool table coverings were made of wool, and having seen a program on the television about them recently I think it’s fair to say that some of them still are. The woollen cloth is made into felt by roughing it up with wire brushes and then cutting back the surface with a thing that looks like a lawn mower. British wool has what is known in the trade as a ‘long staple’ which apparently makes it ideal for the wear and tear that these pool table covers have to take – especially on a Saturday night when the beer is flowing and the players get energetic.

      What I had definitely not heard before was the explanation of how pool might be an astronomical teaching device but I have to say that it all makes perfect sense. I was particularly impressed with the colours of the balls and their planetary significance. In fact everything you mentioned makes sense. When we stop to think about it, Freemasonry in particular uses such symbolic devices all the time in order to teach its lessons. Scott’s wife Janet and I will be publishing a book later this year which although not mentioning pool, does make significant reference to baseball, which also has very strong astronomical and Freemasonic overtones.

      Many thanks for the heads up on this. I will be sure to give you the credit for it if it finds its way into a subsequent book.

      Great to talk to you Anthony

      Best Regards


    2. Hello Alan,

      Thank you! I didn't know felt was made from wool. I think there may be alchemy here as well. I just can't recall off the top of my head, which celestial bodies the other colors should match with. The black 8-ball, and its placement seem to convey similar symbolism to the circle within the chevron on the "Jesus tomb". Pool/Billiards seems to pop up out of nowhere in the 1300's. Pool tables were, and still are expensive. I'm not sure when they made their way out of private homes but, what is interesting is, where they are found. Inns and taverns...The same places Masonic meetings were held. If any Inquisitor came around, it would be easy to play it off as a game. Same with baseball. I'm pretty sure one could include American Football. I might have discussed the Football angle with you in an email. I can't reference them, as all of my saved emails vanished with my former email account. That was the closest I've come to writing down any of my ideas.

      I'm glad someone else is looking at baseball through a Freemasonic lens. I hope you include the on-deck circles. I'll keep the rest to myself, as I believe I know where Yourself, and Mrs. Wolter are going with baseball. I don't wish to spoil anything for the readers.

      I can't wait for you to have time to check out Castle Acre's "light boxes".

      You're THE MAN,

      Anthony Warren

      BTW- I've started signing with my middle name. My last name is too rare, and I really don't want any unwanted attention from zealots. I recognize some of the writing styles of Scott's trolls, and believe them to be the same people posting religious rants on Science articles from another site. Personally, I think they should move out of their mother's basement and get real jobs.

      If anyone reading this is curious about the "Light Box"...Seek- "Uriels Machine" (Knight, Lomas) and "Rosslyn Revealed" (Butler, Ritchie)

      These are the only two books I'm aware of covering the subject.

    3. Hello Alan,

      I forgot to mention...The full set of racked balls seem the same as the "Eye of Providence" and as I believe this symbol to be a stylized geometrical representation of our solar system, the planetary connection fits perfectly. Also, what I call the stretched compass and square marks out the positions of the pockets, and provides "latitude lozenges". This stretched compass and square is briefly shown in the UA opener. What I find funny...While this idea has been developing in my mind, a pool table was shown in an episode of UA for no apparent reason. I didn't have any reason to bring up the idea until wool was mentioned. I know American Football used to have the "gridiron" on the field, and I wonder what this "gridiron" would look like placed upon a pool table??? And I don't know...maybe have this "gridiron" represented as a black and white checker pattern??? The main obstacle my mind is having, has to do with not being able to ascertain the original dimensions of the table. Most American pool tables have green felt, all of the "billiard tables" I've seen have red felt, and are much larger in dimension. What is the symbolism of red felt/wool? Would seem tied in to the color of the Templar Cross.

      No rush to respond. I wanted to get this out before, my mind files it away, and I lose this line of thought.

      Best regards,

      Anthony Warren

  16. Anthony,

    Alan is quite busy at the moment with finishing a book and doing a bit of traveling. So don't be alarmed if it takes a couple days for him to respond.

    Ah, the life of a genius...

  17. It's funny to see the references to stoneholes, above, as though naturally thought of as being mooring stoneholes...still!.

    I see, too, Scott, that you have corrected the notion someone had about the stoneholes being for mooring ships, like in medieval Iceland. This idea is hard to thwart, because it is so engrained in some peoples' minds. I have come across local folks who even became angry at me when I suggested big Viking ships never moored at Runestone Park!

    I hope you don't mind that I point out here that there were several purposes for these medieval stoneholes, least of all for mooring ships. People think of Minnesota and the surrounding area being covered with enough water to moor big ships just 650 years back, and you pointed out this this is an error, since the last glacial movement left the landscape pretty much as it is...about 10,000 years ago!

    Historically speaking, most of the stoneholes up in this region seem to be related to acquiring land and marking waterways back in medieval times, but there were other reasons for stoneholes as well, such as for construction (Viking Altar Rock) and breaking off slabs (flat-topped rock in SD)...and possibly even for concealing something within sacred geometry using stonehole rocks (Runestone Park?). So we see rather quickly at least five reasons for stoneholes, but the least reason in America is for mooring ships! Yet the "mooring" stonehole signage remains at Runestone Park. Yes, and it's still sad....

    So then, the hundreds of medieval stoneholes up here in this region have a story to tell, but it's not about mooring Viking ships. Good call, Scott. People have been confused about this for way too long, and the myth persists, as we see.

    Personally, I would like to know exactly why Runestone Hill is surrounded by a dozen or so stoneholes, and I would like to know why three stoneholes are sometimes found close together, such as at Skraell Hill at Runestone Park and at other locations in nearby SD.

    It seems that there's always something new to learn about these stoneholes. For instance, we can see clearly that early Scandinavians knew about the circular ocean-to-ocean waterway reaching far inland to South Dakota, because we see the many stoneholes and petroglyphs still adorning the landscape in that particular spot. Why are the evidences so heavy there in that one place? Because the spot was absolutely meaningful as a far inland waterway merging indicated with the "super-abundance" of these medieval stoneholes and other evidences.

    I'm going to be curious this Spring to see if there are any stoneholes up at that lake just off the Chippewa River--that "non-mythical" lake with the two skerries, about a day's journey north of Runestone Hill...that same exact place out in the middle of nowhere, where a medieval battle axe was found in 1894 a foot and a half down (as a time-capsule), revealing where the men talked about in the message of the KRS most likely were camped back in 1362 when half of the party died. (In my opinion, this finding helps to corroborate both the message of the KRS and the authenticity of the KRS itself.)

  18. Hello Scott,

    I'm not sure if my post to you regarding some symbolism went through the other night or not but, I've an additional pool table point specifically for you. Visualize with me here...Set up a 9-ball rack, take two cue-sticks and lay them down as an "X" on top of the 9-ball rack, where the tip of the diamond touches the center of the "X". Now take your regular equilateral triangle rack and set it upside down at the to of the right arm of the "X"...Look familiar???

    Best regards,

    Anthony Warren

    1. Anthony,

      Works for me! Hooked X perhaps?

    2. Sure looks that way in my mind, Scott. I'm going to have to find a way to the local pool hall, and test it out.

    3. And of course, if you stop short of making it a "Hooked X"...You still have the AVM. Pretty cool.

      Best regards,


    4. It all weaves together doesn't it?

    5. I never thought of the Pool Table as a Goddess Altar before. There's quite a bit one could teach with that game, and all in secret. That's just plain awesome!

  19. (I am reposting, as the comment didn't come up, so please forgive if you see two of these) Not sure if this was mentioned before...but I was having a tangent thought...the kind one gets when having a boring day at work...I was thinking of Orion (my favorite constellation), and thought that one could see a hooked X I said, a tangent thought...what do you think? Of course, now I am trying to see if there is a constellation that has that hand symbolism for Mary Magdalene...wouldn't that be something? Love the show!

  20. Jennifer,

    You're not the first person to propose the Hooked X was part of the constellation of Orion. I'm not so sure, but it is a vitally important constellation in the mythology of many cultures today and in the past.

  21. Scott, I have many many rock tools which from what Ive seen come from the
    neanderthal age, the only problem is I found them in a particular place in the US,
    a continent history insists neanderthals were not on.
    I would love to have them looked at since they appear to be exactly what is
    shown to be neanderthal tools and would further indicate what I believe is
    fact, that many were on this continent long before modern times.
    I dont tweet dont FB so Im not sure how else to contact so Im using your blog.

    Btw, I Fully agree with your last show of season 3. Ive thot that about the
    statues of Mary holding child my entire life, despite having gone to Catholic schools.

    Thanks, S.T.
    Sorry, I dont know which 'profile' to pick since I dont do this often, I hope
    this posts.

  22. Anonymous,

    I would take the artifacts to a local college with an archaeology department and show them your finds. They should be able to tell you hat you have.

    A lot of people enjoyed the final to shows and I have to admit I did too. It as really fun to share those exciting finds in France and Portugal.

  23. Hello Alan,

    I wanted to mention another wool related idea before I forget it. The wool apron. In our favorite book, "Stellar Theology" the shape of the Pharaoh's apron is a truncated pyramid. Does this mean his bellybutton/naval is the Sun which completes the truncated pyramid??? I've seen the bellybutton represented as the Sun in religions of other cultures. Maybe this represents the Sun on the Summer Solstice, completing the "Royal Arch" when the "Sun reaches full glory". Certainly seems to represent the Egyptian year. Now imagine the pharaoh's "obelisk" is standing upright...The symbolism on the apron starts making sense. The pharaoh's apron seems to be an astronomical device, and makes a proclamation..."Mine is the biggest!". ;~)

    Makes me ponder the potential spiritual importance of the bellybutton. The place where we were connected to our mothers. Since first viewing "The Miracle of Life" in high school Biology, I've wondered...Who cut the first cord? Seems like some highly specialized knowledge to me. Along the same lines, I wonder who potty trained humans? Underground pipes in Tiahuanoco are very similar to those found in Ancient Greece/Minoa. Were toilets invented here, or there??? Strange ponderings.

    Best regards,

    Anthony Warren

  24. I've been thinking about this whole Oak Island, Templar treasure idea, and I don't think it's legitimate. I think people are looking too far north along the North Atlantic coastline for the treasure, so I believe it more likely to exist here in America than in New Scotland. I think the more southern area of Vinland offers a fairly logical choice for a great treasure heading for a faraway location, away from civilization.

    I see from consulting maps that La Rochelle is pretty much directly east of Vinland, if one wants to consider Vinland being as far south as, say, where the Newport Tower is located. I'm wondering why the escaping ships with treasure would have gone north to Scotland before making the journey across the Atlantic. A direct route to Vinland would seem to make more sense, if the idea was to quickly escape to the "unknown" New World back in the early first half of the 1300s. However, the location of Vinland was already known for a few hundred years, by select groups of people...those "in the know."

    We know the KRS party came from the east, from Vinland. The purpose of their journey seems to have been clarified or better defined to say that they were on an "acquisition" mission. The acquisition is guessed by most to have been land. But, could they have been on a mission to acquire or reacquire something else? What?

    The vast hoard of Templar treasure supposedly disappeared from France in 1307. The KRS is dated 1362. Maybe the KRS party was on a mission to check up on Runestone Hill. Maybe at this early time, the knoll was already encircled with stonehole rocks. They knew about the stonehole rocks. When they put the memorial stone in place, they figured people would be coming back to the knoll, like they themselves did. Why?

    This appears to have been a Swedish thing to do...a Scandinavian thing. But, now we have the Newport Tower, appearing Scottish, in Vinland, most say erected around 1400 or so. The question becomes whether Scottish hands were involved in trying to find the treasure...long after it disappeared far inland, or whether it only seems so.

    So, did French Templars with Scandinavian help go straight to America's Vinland with their treasure, and then even farther inland, perhaps as far as Minnesota and the Dakotas? Why not? Vinland is straight west of La Rochelle. And where oceanic waterways converge by the MN/SD border, is straight west of Vinland. Maybe the treasure came straight west to inland America from France, rather than going north to Scotland.

    So, what did the KRS party intend to acquire or reacquire...or check up on? Land, or possibly something else? I personally believe the dozen or so stonehole rocks at Runestone Park pre-date the KRS. Was a "sacred geometric" design laid out upon the grounds of Runestone Park using stonehole rocks...but before the runestone was left there? If so, why? To possibly conceal a great treasure buried there a half-century secretive Templars who also knew about the oceanic waterway "circle" convergence in nearby SD? If the treasure isn't at Oak Island, where is it?

    1. Gunn,

      I actually have a lot to say about the points you bring up in this post; all interesting and worth discussion. However, I am going to refrain at this time as I'm hoping to explore these questions in detail in future shows.

      I like that you are bringing these ideas up as they certainly merit further discussion.

  25. Okay Scott, thanks for the encouragement. I hope to encourage you in your future unearthing, as well.

    It seems odd to say that, as a "fringe" thinker, I am finding myself involved here in a trifecta of strange "coincidences." To me, the emerging coincidences are interesting as well as puzzling. Either they are coincidences, or they are actually meaningful. I hope you don't mind if I break it down just a bit more:

    1. There is the seeming coincidence of river waterways beginning at oceanic sources and merging far inland in America...precisely where we find a super-abundance of medieval Scandinavian evidences, mostly clusters of stoneholes.

    2. There is the seeming coincidence of a medieval Scandinavian battle axe being found like a time capsule, 18" down, in 1894, precisely on the bank of a lake with 2 skerries a day's actual journey north from Runestone Hill. The message on the KRS includes a description of where the ill-fated campsite was located. Where the battle axe was found exactly fits the message on the KRS.

    3. Somebody early on (you, Scott) brought up the idea of "sacred geometry" possibly being used at Runestone Park to conceal a purposely buried runestone. Though I don't completely agree with this hypothesis, I do see what possibly looks like sacred geometry being used at the Park, too, along with you. I toyed with the idea of Templar treasure possibly being buried at Runestone Park, based on my own sacred geometry design, which--again by coincidence--resembles a commonly cut jewel design, of all things. Also strange is that the KRS seems to have been placed as the hook on a huge X laid out upon the ground in this jewel design. And why a jewel design? Is it a clue?

    These strange coincidences keep percolating up through the frothy barrel of "fringe" ideas, and Scott, I hope you are indeed able to further explore these and other issues related to our medieval European history up here in the "Hinterland." All three of the "coincidences" I just listed have something in common, and that is the need for immediate inspection by professional archaeologists. We can expect no help at the state level, but perhaps a Season 4 America Unearthed would help foot the bill for very real archaeology to take place up here, where something historically astounding would quite likely be found.

    In other words, my view is that you and America Unearthed should conduct some extensive "unearthing" right here in this region. Of all the artifacts--fake and otherwise--you've worked with, Scott, I believe the KRS remains your best hope of discovering a mother-lode of provable history. By focusing in on the KRS, you may be able to unearth history truth up here like no one else...except for God, of course....

    By the way, I was thinking that a Catholic memorial service might be in order for the ten men who died here in Minnesota back in 1362, since we may now be fairly certain of where they died, and since we may believe that they were Christians of some sort, based on the Runestone's expression of "AVM." I wonder if Rev. Phil would be interested in this idea? (The truth of the matter is that a few years ago I left an offering, something valuable, at Runestone Hill at the memorial plaque...a sacrificial offering not unlike those made by Native Americans, but out of respect alone, not out of fear, as throwing tobacco on troublesome waters.) Perhaps these intrepid men never had a memorial service. What better place to have one than where they likely died?

    1. Hello Gunn,

      I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about with the "commonly cut jewel design". I call it the "Superman Symbol". If we were on the same page, let me know. I've much more to say.

      I think Oak Island is Templar tombs, and the object/s of importance were moved a long time ago. I think the object/s of importance may have spent some time in a cave system beneath present day Fort Knox. George Washington supposedly hid some stuff there as well. I can't see anyone being given access. Not in my lifetime.

      Best regards,

      Anthony Warren

  26. Hello Alan and Scott,

    The Agnus Dei symbol shown at the top of this blog sure reminds me of Orion and some surrounding stars. The two tips on the banner really stand out, just after Orion begins to stand. One tip appears to be Rigel. Where the lamb wraps its leg around the staff, appears to represent the position of Sirius. Is Orion a Shepherd, and not a hunter, or...Could Orion be a Shepherdess. Maybe a Shepherdess named Mary, who had a little lamb(Sirius), whose fleece was white as snow, and everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go. I know Humpty Dumpty was a cannon...Makes me wonder about Mary and her Lamb.

    Best regards,

    Anthony Warren

  27. Anthony,

    I'm quite sure there are multiple secret repositories in our country and you're right we going to be given access anytime soon. I'd like to hope it's for the right reasons. Otherwise, these artifacts should be on display for all to see.

    1. Scott,

      Is there anything you could tell me about "Icelandic spar"? It's my understanding, quite a bit of this material was found on Gotland.

      I agree with the idea of "multiple secret repositories". I believe many of them are in plain sight.

      Best regards,

      Anthony Warren

  28. Hi Anthony, thanks for the comments and question. You are exactly right-on about the cut-jewel design I'm proposing being similar to the Superman logo shape. The exception is that the Superman shape is 5-sided and pointed at the bottom, while the proposed Templar/Monk sacred geometry design is 6-sided, with a flat bottom. I'm glad you brought this to my attention. Now I know how to better describe it. (Anyone reading this can follow these esoteric insights by clicking on my name, above, and accessing the "sacred geometry" page to see the design being proposed.

    I think it is worth mentioning again that if the perceived sacred geometry at Runestone Hill is real, this Superman logo with the flattened bottom seems to have been super-imposed on the actual landscape, the ground, at Runestone Park. So, if this proposed design overlaying Runestone Park is accurate, it includes an X within the design, and the KRS itself had become the hook on the proposed cut-jewel design laid out upon the grounds of Runestone Park.

    The only caveat or possible problem with the sacred geometry I'm proposing at Runestone Park is that one of the two large stonehole rocks currently on the knoll was moved there from a nearby location, which as far as I know is not known. One has been accounted for, but one has not been. So, depending on the original location of this 2nd stonehole rock, the design image may be accurate, still, or not...depending on if it will fit in and align with the proposed design. So then, the reality of the sacred geometric design is still possible, but depending upon where that 2nd stonehole rock was moved from. It may be possible for me or someone else to learn more about this by consulting with local senior citizens, etc.

    I'm glad you brought the design up, Anthony. The dozen or so stoneholes at Runestone Park were put where they were, in a particular design, for some particular harm in speculating about why. No harm in wondering why an X would've been laid out on the ground, either, maybe similar to the notion that "X marks the spot." (We know what this means on treasure maps, for instance.)

    If this other large stonehole rock originally aligned okay with the possible sacred geometry design being proposed, then the center of this "X spot" would be a good place to conduct an archaeological dig, in my opinion. I would dig very deep....

    1. Gunn,

      Make your illustration more like a diamond/Superman symbol. Appears to mark a spot on what I believe is another river, based upon the illustration. This "point" always marks something of import. I hope you see what I'm talking about. Once you've done this, it might help to add a line from this "point" out through the center of the symbol. Not only do you create the cross, you make a double cross. Now draw out the ellipse around the symbol. There's usually a serpent involved, like the "S" in the Superman Symbol, which was originally a snake. In fact, the whole cape was covered with "S" shaped snakes, just like the pattern around the chequy amorial at Tomar, shown in Steve's blog. Where did this come from???...The "Kent family". Anyway, If a river runs through it...could be interpreted as a serpent???

      Some say this symbol merely represents an "unfinished pyramid".

      Take a look at the layout of DC. Take note of Washington Circle, Logan Circle...You'll see the same design. If so, there's at least one other important spot. Here's a hint...The Scottish Rite Temple is the "pupil".

      I hope this is easier to decipher than my steel idea.

      Best regards,

      Anthony Warren

    2. Anthony, I wouldn't want to make the illustration into anything other than what the existing pattern of stonehole rocks at Runestone Park suggests it may be. Anyway, the design doesn't need a "pointer," since it already contains an X. That said, an archaeologist or someone hosting a history "unearthing" type of show might consider zeroing-in on the center of the X sometime in the future. (Just a notion based on fanciful and idle speculation.)

    3. Gunn,
      Think of the "gem" as a flower blossom. All blossoms emanate from a point. If I had the means to investigate, I'd check out the spot that would be marked on the map by adding a V. The bottom point of the "V" could point to something. Every other place I've encountered this pattern, this is the most important spot. I couldn't explain myself, without writing a book.

      Best regards,

      Anthony Warren

      See: "City of the Goddess" Alan Butler

  29. Anthony,

    Icelandic spar is optically clear calcite that ancient mariners used to navigate with in cloudy weather. It would polarized the suns rays through the clouds allowing them to accurately locate it on the seas.

    1. Scott, I am in need of assistance of your knowledge. I have stumbled across something in the last year. It involves Pagan God and godess worship in plain sight. The Freemasons and Knights templar and the hooked X or X. Its right in the bible and has bigger meaning when used there. I need to contact you Via email. Thanks
      Matthew. I will check back here.

  30. Hello Alan, Scott, and anyone else interested in aspects of the Goddess,

    Have you seen the ring found in the following articles?


    You should really pay close attention to the "X" in her hair. There's all kind of symbolism, I've seen before. Is there anything significance to the gemstone or it's color? It's color suggests to me a lunar eclipse connection. This color also makes me think of a certain stone in the Newport Tower.

    Best regards, Anthony Warren

  31. Scott... any word about A.U's next season???
    if so... it would be a way cool thread in March
    or April's forum area! I'm crossing my fingers.

  32. 4/13/2015

    Mr. Wolter;
    I am a fan of your show on H2, America Unearthed. Yesterday evening an episode aired that had you visiting Templar sites in the UK and France. As a Freemason, I find such investigations intriguing.
    Years ago I read a book by John J. Robinson (deceased) entitled “Born In Blood”. Mr. Robinson was an amateur historian who studied the middle ages and the crusades in the holy lands. Like you, he thought he had found a relationship between the Knights Templar and modern day Freemasons. My own opinions are nearer to his than to most, although no one has offered definitive proof of their theses.
    Part of what compels me to write to you today is your stance on the Templars’s (and by extension, Freemasonry’s) conflicts with religion, with particular regards to the Roman Catholic Church. Modern Freemasonry has no stance on religion beyond requiring its members to confess belief in and accountability to a Supreme Deity.
    The Templars, however, gained their greatest power after being ordained as an official order and protectorate of the Pope. I can’t recall exactly where the Papacy was encamped during this time (Versailles perhaps?). The order existed for about 300 years and developed immense powers commercially, financially, and militarily.
    Near the end of their time with the Pope, the Templars manned a citadel in Jerusalem, and several others along the Mediterranean coast (Antioch, Joppa, etc.). They had permanent facilities on the isle of Malta. Templars had a large standing army AND navy. They guaranteed safe passage of persons and property all along the Mediterranean coast. They controlled several thousands of acres of property, mostly in France.
    Lastly, the Templars held enormous debt markers on King Philip of France. Robinson and other historians contend that Philip coerced the Pope to order the arrest and extermination of the Templars (10/13/1307), thereby nullifying his debts and simultaneously liberating Templar properties on French soil. Most Freemasons believe this, and it is taught in the rituals of Scottish Rite Freemasonry.
    As you suggest, perhaps the Templars held Mary Magdalene in special reverence. Also, perhaps the Holy Grail was a physical descendant of Jesus of Nazareth, born of his (perhaps) wife Mary Magdalene, and perhaps the Templars were protectors of the blood line. This wanders off into historical and theological debates and ideas that I am unprepared to discuss. I am one Christian who does NOT feel that such a circumstance undermines Christ’s divinity or Christianity as a belief system, although I am certain many Christians would find this idea offensive and heretical.
    What does vex me is your insistence on relating the Templars to modern Freemasonry across the board. Freemasonry has had to fend off attackers in America for over 200 years. Most of those who most vehemently oppose Freemasonry are completely uninformed about its customs, practices, institutions, etc. Most charlatans who find their way in front of TV camera have NO knowledge of the fraternity, yet they willingly fan flames to foment hate against this benign and charitable institution.
    And then there are the disinterested third parties who arm themselves with newspaper clippings and tomes produced by various Masonic ‘experts’. They insert their oars and start paddling without regard to harm they might cause to their neighbors.
    Please, don’t be a jackass who waves the red flag of Masonic Secrets just to lure the eyeballs of viewers who often have malice in their hearts against an organization that has NOT offended them and of which they are utterly ignorant. If you have to throw crap at the fan occasionally, please check to see who might be in the line of fire.

    David Stricklin
    505 Pointe Clear Dr
    Smyrna TN 37167
    (talk or text)


    Scott Wolter's idea about "Chris" following the trail others blazed loosely 400 or 500 years earlier is given more of a back-up by this DNA study concerning people with Icelandic ancestry going back easily 1000 years. Pocahontas was not totally unique, perhaps. I am now confident a connection exists between Saint Brendan's close friends and very distant Bermuda, aware that I am that the Basques salted down cod caught on the Georges Banks at about A.D 1000!!! Iceland does have old archives and records. Only a few weeks ago Elizabeth II gave a quiet approval for a state funeral for England's last Plantagenet King. This is the third time in her lifetime that an English King has had a state funeral. She was a child when her grandfather dies in 1936, she comes to the throne with the passing of her father, and now Richard III has been laid to rest in a kinder manner than his hurried burial. We may never know if the bones found in the Tower during the reign of Charles II were those of his nephews, whether legitimate or illegitimate, but its neat to realize even a doctrinaire and fanatical Josephine Tey quoting Ricardian has to respect as an urbane monarchist the line of descent from Edward IV's daughter Elizabeth, via the House of Stuart that let James I&VI in terms of an ongoing lineage be the heir to Henry VIII's daughters and son! A civil war ends with this! A new era begins! History matters as does accuracy! The KRS is feeling like less of a fluke and part of an ongoing narrative!

    1. The KRS is arguably the most important pre-Columbian historical artifact in North America. At least it will be in due time; you heard it here first folks.

      Actually, I've said it a billion times by now...

    2. Yes, you've said it about a billion times. Unfortunately, Proof By Assertion is not proof. It's a fallacy.

    3. What is your point? Are you suggesting the voluminous factual evidence you haven't acknowledged is an "Assertion" or are you asserting it is fallacy?

    4. There are reasons to think it to be authentic...

      There is compelling evidence behind what

      Scott Wolter has said to we who watch A.U!

  34. Those evil academics, always trying to hide the truth.

  35. The aren't evil; many hopelessly territorial which prompts them to turn a blind eye or be close-minded to the point they can't see the obvious contrary evidence staring them in the face.

    1. Oh C'mon Scott, what does that even mean? It's an odd thing, most of your favorite examples such as the bat stone and runestones seem to have stopped being found since the 19th and early 20th century. It's also odd that since that time there have been thousands upon thousands of excavations with no jewish-masonic-Templar-runestone hype that you promote.

      Of course they would! The grant money would pour in.

    2. You couldn't be more wrong. The Spirit Pond Rune Stones were found in 1971, the Narragansett Rune Stone was first publically noted in 1984, the Millwood Rune Stone was found in 1969, America's Stonehenge goes back to the mid-18th century, and of course the Newport Tower goes back to at least 1677. You're also forgetting about the Newark, Ohio Hebrew Stones that date back to the early 19th century, the Los Lunas inscription could be ancient Hebrew, and of course the Tucson Lead Artifacts found in 1924-1930 are 100% genuine.

      Pre-Columbian artifacts and sites have been found for over 350 years on this continent. What exactly was the point you're trying to make? Further, you tell me why academia and the Smithsonian has no interest in legitimately investigating these sites? The key word is "legitimately."

      You and I both know there is something rotten going on here and it starts with the Smithsonian Institution in Washington. Are you ready to admit it?

  36. Hi Scott,

    I read a report by your former colleague Richard Neilson saying that you hired a man named Bob Johnson to make a mould of the Kensington Rune Stone. He claimed in it that the mould permanently discolored the artifact. As a fan of you, I wasn't too sure what to make of it and wanted to get your side of the story since for all I know it could be a biased report.

    Thanks for time (and here's to hoping for a new season of AU!),


    1. Here is another report, with references from a group of scholars questioning Mr. Wolter's conclusions:

      Note it is reported that Mr. Wolter himself admitted weakened contrast after the casting in question.

    2. Dear "Care to state your name?"

      I have not seen this particular report before which was probably edited by Nielsen before posting on his website, but let's take it face value for a minute. The narrative part of the report basically agrees with nearly all of my findings, but it's the conclusions where things get interesting.

      1. The Swedish team is flat out wrong saying the white undulating and branching lineations on the back side of the KRS are not the result of root leaching. Three plant physiologists I consulted said that's exactly what they were and that they are very common to see on rock. I've heard the same thing from multiple archaeologist's and have also seen the phenomenon in rocks in contact with roots myself.

      Further, the Swedish team's claim they were caused by "...prolonged contact with channeled water..", is, frankly, ridiculous. First, how running water would be channeled in the fashion seen on the sloped backside of KRS is unfathomable to me. Second, running water wouldn't produce the chemical alteration of the iron-based minerals we documented in the core sample I took through the root leaching. It would cause physical erosion of the surface, but it didn’t on the back of this very hard stone. This conclusion is completely lacking in any factual support and is simply wrong.

      2. The Swedes conclude the split side is likely natural, based on my incorrect identification of the tool that made the impact marks. Really? How do they know what tool made the marks and aren’t the marks the result of man regardless?? They further speculate the difference in color might be a result of the “exposition of the ice”, whatever that means? If so, then why is the weathering profile also different than the rest of the glacial surfaces of the stone, yet consistent with the weathering profile of the original inscription? This commentary never made any sense at the time and still doesn't over a dozen years later.

      3. The Swedes were unclear if the bottom of the grooves were lighter in color because of crushed minerals. Well, I'm sure because Olof testified orally, and in writing, that he did scratch the inscription out with a nail. Here again, they are being contradictory in spite of the factual evidence that supports my observations prior to learning of Olof’s actions.

      4. They don't disagree with my pyrite conclusion; they just say more study should be done and I agree.

      5. They agree with everything I did with regard to the tombstone study on the micas in the narrative, but claim my conclusion as "disputable" saying I needed to look at below-grade tombstones samples when in fact, I did! WTF?

      This report is similar to the questions in correspondence I received from Runo (although, to my face, Runo agreed with everything we looked at together) and others and does nothing to refute any of my findings. Nielsen would now love to see my work overturned even though he fully endorsed all of it, for years, and co-authored a book with me where he supported all my geological findings.

      Why do you think he suddenly did a "180" in 2006?

  37. Neil,

    Nielsen's report is very biased as we had a falling out over money he owes me for the "Compelling New Evidence" book. The release agent for the mold did cause a temporary darkening of the scratched areas at the bottom of the grooves after the mold was removed. However, the scratched areas gradually lightened and the temporary darkening is now gone. It was strictly a visual thing, light when wood or concrete gets darker when wet, but then returns to its original color when it dries.

    Nielsen has tried to make an issue of the molding process (that he was also a part of) to try and discredit me. The molding process did not alter the artifact physically or chemically in any way. It's comprised of very tough minerals, but some people try to muddy the waters to serve their own agenda.

    The KRS is just fine.

  38. Thanks for the information Scott. That's interesting since Neilson never said anything about being involved in the moulding process. How was he involved?

  39. Neil,

    At the time, Dick and I worked together daily and no decisions were made about the KRS unless we were in agreement to proceed. However, this is not about assigning blame and attacking me personally and professionally as Dick has been want to do for the past nearly ten years. The reality is there is nothing problematic about the molding of the stone or with any of the geological work I did on the KRS.

    I just read the geological "report" Dick has posted on his website and the Swedes basically confirmed my findings in the narrative, but their conclusions show disagreement with some of my findings. The problem is they have no factual basis for the formulation of their opinions. Keep in mind the Swedes were very hostile toward the KRS and my work when I was there in 2003, so to read these negative opinions is not at all surprising.

    In any case, the weathering of the KRS inscription is at least two centuries too old for a 19th century hoax and based on simple logic must be genuine. End of story IMHO.

    1. Can you please post the link to the Swedish report on your work?


  40. Sal,

    The link is already posted above, but I think this "report" has been edited by Nielsen as the conclusions are inconsistent with the comments in the narrative and a couple of the conclusions don't make sense coming from a competent geologist. These are just rambling comments and not a professionally written report. There is no proper structure to it, no photographs, no supporting data, no references, it's nothing that I take very seriously.

    Regardless, there isn't anything damning to my geological conclusions anyway.

    1. Sorry I missed that link above. There are references however, on the last page. It also seems that the authors had been communicating with you concerning your findings. Was this before the Larsson papers were discovered? Because that's when most who were willing to see the KRS as possibly authentic, jumped ship.


  41. Sal,

    The Larsson Papers came out at about the same time. You have to understand the mentality of the Swedish academics to understand what happened during this time. There was a century-long, highly negative attitude toward the KRS based primarily on aspects of the inscription that today are no longer valid. To be fair, there are still questions to be answered, but the simple explanation is we're talking about a one-of-a-kind document that was not treated in a proper scientific way from the beginning. And we all know how hard it is to erase a bad reputation; especially when the rumors came from supposedly reputable people.

    Professor Henrik Williams had just been reprimanded by the University in Uppsala, in 2003, for suggesting the KRS be restudied based upon my discovery of the two dots over the "a" rune in the word "har." This discovery erased the only word in the inscription that was indeed a modern word and made it an Old Swedish word. When the Larsson Papers came out it gave Williams the opportunity to make the KRS go away by claiming this could have been the modern source for the runes, so he "jumped."

    The sad part is neither he nor any of his colleagues had the courage to acknowledge the obvious. The Larsson Papers are obviously Masonic in origin and the Swedish text above the runic alphabet that contained the KRS runes (not all the problematic runes BTW) clearly states it's ancient origins. The obvious conclusion Williams should have reached was the characters are much older and evolved over time from secret Baltic region Cistercian/Knights Templar alphabets into later Freemasonic secret coded alphabets. The problem for academics is they know nothing about Cistercian/Templar/masonic sources and instead of acknowledging it, they took the easy route, claimed it was modern and could have been used to carve the inscription. Of course there is zero evidence this happened and so we fall back to the established paradigm.

  42. But how can you justify your rather tenuous position by basing it on an even more tenuous position, pointing to a some sort of unproven, allegedly secret Cistercian/Templar/Masonic conspiracy as justification? The loose ends don't really tie up, as conspiracies tend to have one goal rather than various, hand-picked potpourri randomly strung together to illustrate preconceived notions. What you're basically saying is that your critics don't know what you know, but you've strayed far from geology in making your points. The KRS for example, went from being possible evidence of early European settlement to rather outlandish, fringe theories that are near comical at this point. I mean, you can't dismiss the Larsson Papers by simply claiming they're "masonic", as if that means instant conspiracy. To do what exactly?

    If it were just the authenticity which was in question, perhaps more would be willing to consider your original findings. I think that's where the academics got off board; when you ventured away from simple geology.


  43. Sal,

    The fact is these codes are known to be Cistercian/Templar/Masonic; period. You can choose to dismiss them, but they are facts none-the-less. There is no conspiracy theory despite what you want to believe and what gives you the right to imply that I cannot venture beyond geology with my research?

    The facts are consistent with the KRS characters being centuries older than the Larsson Papers and were unknown because they were kept close within secret societies that are well-known to have existed throughout history; so just deal with it.

    More people everyday are realizing the truth about the KRS, that it is a medieval land claim placed by a post-putdown group who embraced the Venus Families Ideology of Monotheistic Dualism. Their ideological descendants completed the job of establishing their "sanctuary" away from the Roman Catholic Church and monarchies of old Europe. They successfully created the "New Jerusalem" we now call the United States. Last I checked the Founding Fathers we have elevated to near God-like status were mostly Freemasons, but I'm sure you'll claim that a coincidence or a conspiracy theory...

    Geology was the "rock" of factual evidence that served as the foundation to find the evidence to explain the who, from where, and why those people carved the KRS and buried it on the continental divide of North America.

    You don't have to accept the conclusion the facts support, but please don't waste our time with empty negative rhetoric.

    1. So you would prefer empty positive rhetoric? I'm trying to have a civil discussion with you. The "facts" you rely upon are unsupported speculation in academic fields for which you have no foundation. Someone above mentioned "proof by assertion". Have you looked that up? It's "an informal fallacy in which a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction." You're taking Dan Brown and mixing in a dash of Disney's National Treasure, to appeal to an uneducated public.


  44. Sal,

    Call it what you want, but all you have offered is a negative opinion without any factual support for your view. Citing Dan Brown and National Treasure isn't a serious rebuttal. Come on, you can do better than that can't you?

    I'm happy to be civil, but you are not being objective and exhibit only a debunker's mentality to this point. Dunkers in my view are not seriously interested in the truth so I don't take them seriously. When you start to acknowledge the facts I've presented then we can have a serious discussion.

    1. But facts you've presented are in dispute. Like above, when you dispute the Swedish academics in regard to below ground sampling of the slate tombstones in Maine. Wasn't the ground frozen and covered in snow when you examined them, not allowing below ground findings? You also compared those slate tombstones to the greywacke of the KRS, apples to bananas really, without even allowing for artificial aging comparisons. You write above in regard to experts you've consulted with who stand by your findings, though you don't name them. If I were to go by such hearsay, I could tell you I've read other geological criticisms of your work elsewhere... and I have. The consensus is that you used concepts haphazardly, in a mishmash to confuse the laypersons who would be your likely readers. If you doubt this, let me ask how did a lineation of detrital grains become a foliation of mica minerals? Ring a bell?

      I'm ready for a serious discussion and hope you are too.


    2. Sal,

      It's funny how you cryptically make comments like you know what you’re talking about when clearly you don't. First, my geological facts regarding the KRS are not in dispute. The Swedes have not presented anything factual contrary to my findings and were operating in the past under incorrect assumptions. Further, I don't believe the comments published on Nielsen's website are legitimate. No first year geologist would make such silly comments about the split side and the root leaching that are in that document. I suspect Nielsen is pretending to be a geologist again.

      Second, where did you get the information that it was winter when the tombstone samples were taken and that the below-grade samples we took were never tested? Both assumptions are wrong.

      Third, comparing the same mineral of the same grain size, biotite in this case, in different rock types is perfectly appropriate and was in fact, the only way to go forward. This goes to show that wherever you're getting your information from is geologically flawed.

      Fourth, if you had read "Compelling New Evidence" you'd know the geologists' who reviewed my work are not only named, but are pictured in the book. I'm sure you have read plenty of criticism of my work, but unless you (or they) can produce specifics it's meaningless. Legitimate questions from competent geologists have been received and satisfactorily responded to in writing. And no, I will not share those reviews with you. I will only share them with legitimate scientists who contact me directly and can demonstrate that they are serious people with legitimate intent.

      The Swedish investigation team did not complete the work they promised nor did they deliver the final report that was one of the conditions for bringing the stone to Sweden in the first place. Don't you find it odd that the lead scientist, Runo Lofvendahl, had to sneak out of Stockholm and take a train 2-1/2 hours up to Hudiksval to get away from his colleagues to quietly examination the geological aspects of the KRS? I just read our notes again yesterday from that examination and he agreed with all the factual points in my report.

      The only bell that's ringing appears to be one in your head. Lineations and foliations are something I don't think you're in a position to try and play cute with me about. Incidentally, I'm in the midst of writing about my geological research in a new book and I have to say that after reviewing my geological work a decade later I have to say I did a pretty damn good job. Somebody is feeding you bad info, so carefully check your sources before responding with more BS. Keep in mind that other people read this blog and get bored even faster with debunkers than I do.

    3. 50% ad hominem and 50% denial. If you are convinced your groundbreaking theories and speculation have merit, then why do you sell your work rather than submit it for proper, double-blind peer review? That is not how pioneers of science do things.


    4. Sal,

      You continue to exhibit a debunker's mentality. I have answered all the questions for you that I'm going to answer. This was fun, but we're done now.

  45. Dear Mr. Wolter: I am amazed at your patience. Although the storm of invectives that come my way aren't anything compared to what you must receive, I can assure you that the number of closed-minded people eager to shout at the top of their lungs concerning any topic about which they know nothing is a very large one in this country. Since I've been featured on over 300 major media fonts all over the world--television, newspapers, radio, magazines--I get my fair share too. Lately, there has been a fairly intense focus by the media (especially on the East Coast, oddly enough) regarding opinion pieces I've written concerning fracking, seismic forecasting, etc. You're a geologist and my work/books concern seismicity, so I'd be very pleased were you to find the time to take a look at the debate.-->

    David Nabhan

  46. David,

    As you know, in these days of the Internet it's just part of the deal where anyone can call themselves "Sal" for example, and play around on a blog site. I don't any of the silly stuff seriously. Anyway, I watched the news story video and with regard to the gravitational pull of the moon and other heavenly bodies as an earthquake trigger does make sense to me. However, there are so many other factors that can contribute it makes detailed prediction very difficult.

    On the other hand, I would think you could look at past earthquakes and what was happening with the Moon, etc., and see if your thesis has statistical merit.

    Those are my off the cuff comments.

  47. VISBY was the scene of a famous battle in the 1360s. its off the coast of
    Sweden, and was a very prosperous trading location. I went into a site out of
    curiosity when delving into a chapel built from 1483 to 1485 very near to the
    location where the Battle of Towton was fought in the 1460s. I looked at the
    LOST CHAPEL episode and then saw the beginning of the next one on HULU.

    The date of the Battle of Visby predates the engraving on the KRS!!! For some
    reason my mind linked this mass grave site with the hapless expedition in the
    New World. In the 1360s power shifted in the Baltic area. Visby was wealthy...


    LAST STAND AT VISBY (soldiers were buried in a mass grave in full armor!)


    "CSI meets Time Team in this absorbing history series. The Battle of Visby comes alive as mass graves are unearthed, revealing the bravery of the defending Gutes."

    Towton is a War of The Roses equivalent of our Civil War clash at Antietam.
    Towton did not have armor to any degree in the pits where the dead were buried
    but at Visby just off of the Swedish coast, period armor was found roughly 80
    years ago. Mentally I have been comparing the mass graves. As I was doing
    so, my intuition linked the power shift with what we know of Templar lore & the Masons. I've been following the reburial coverage concerning England's last
    ruling Plantagenet, yet found a juxtaposition of the 1360s to the 1460s now. Did
    fear of the Great Plague returning explain the hasty & fast mass burial at Visby? Or did the dead keep their armor as a mark of honor? This has a KRS link, my
    understanding of Swedish history is shallow, I am more familiar with Merrie Auld
    England. Lately, the discovery of the "Car Park" King has us looking anew at
    ancient extant sources and all cusping points of political transition for good or ill. <--- the Battle of Towton

  48. You are correct there is a connection between Gotland and the KRS. Most of the linguistic anomalies within the inscription the scholars said never existed in 14th Century and was their justification for why it was a hoax, have been found on runic grave slabs from Gotland. In fairness to the Scandinavian scholars who said this, the grave slabs on Gotland were only started to be studied by scholars in the 1960s. Much of that work is still to be completed and it was Dick Nielsen, Henrik Williams and myself who were the first to look at these inscriptions in context with the KRS.

    This is how we concluded the carver of the KRS had to be a Cistercian monk as they were the only clergy on Gotland at that time. The common people were not educated and not capable of carving an inscription of that complexity and length. These facts provided the direct connection to the "White Monks" and the Knights Templar order they founded "officially" in 1128.

    Some people have claimed a Templar connection to the KRS is a stretch when in fact, all the evidence fits with a post putdown group traveling with a Cistercian monk educated on Gotland are the only logical candidates to have created the artifact.

    That it is a land claim document placed at the headwaters of the Mississippi-Missouri/Red River-Hudson Bay watershed also explains the "why." The "how" is self-evident since the stone is a Minnesota greywacke proving they got to what is now Minnesota.

    1. "We concluded"??? Why don't we hear from Henrik Williams himself:

      "In fact nothing on the KRS points specifically towards Gotland or the Cistercians. Yet Wolter has the audacity to claim in his summary (p. 253) that: “[N]umerous linguistic, runic, grammatical and dialect traits found in the Kensington Rune Stone inscription are also found in medieval runic inscriptions on Gotland. Interpretation: The carver of the Kensington Rune Stone was likely educated in these aspects of the Old Swedish language on the island of Gotland. Actually I can prove that the KRS was not carved by Cistercians or Templars from Gotland, or by anyone else from that island as a matter of fact. The inscription itself tells us this. Wolter (p. 60) obviously believes that the eight “Goths” mentioned means ‘Gotlanders’, but it does not. The word göter means ‘people from Götaland’ (the southern part of mainland Sweden). The word meaning ‘people from the island of Gotland’ would be gutter in the spelling of the KRS."

      ESOP * The Epigraphic Society Occasional Papers * Volume 27 143

    2. Yes, "we" did conclude the carver was likely educated on Gotland and I stand by that conclusion. "Wolter" does not believe "Goths" means 'Gotlanders,' "Wolter" is confident the carver was from Southern mainland Sweden or Gotland.

      What Williams neglects to say is there were Cistercian Monasteries in Southern Sweden that trained and fed clergy to the churches on Gotland. In this article Mr. Williams is playing a little slight of hand with his comments which in reality echo my own.

      Can you please dispense with the "bait and switch" tactics and just be up front and respectful in your queries? These silly games you like to play are annoying and do nothing to advance your dogmatic beliefs.

      Quit being a jerk and stop the BS.

    3. It's funny that when you claim experts support your position, and then it's shown that they don't, you basically resort to personal attack and then deny the obvious.

    4. Mr. Anonymous,

      You haven't demonstrated anything other than you can selectively pick and choose info that simply distorts reality and appears to support your views.

      Did it ever occur to you that some of these experts have not always conducted themselves with complete honesty and objectivity? In this particular case I can provide factual evidence that is indeed the case. Please read the following about Professor Williams and then please don't come back until you have a different attitude:

    5. Gentlemen... are the Jutes sorta like the later on Gutes or does
      more than just 500 to 1000 years separate them? Anglo-Saxon
      is an ethnic designation. Jute was dropped. Beowulf could have
      been a Jute or just rather Anglo-Saxon. Was Grendel a dragon?
      Is a Wurm a dragon or a very large worm or snake? If the insides
      of the burial mounts found in the more accurate Beowulf stories
      are very Bronze Age Celtic... in light of all the bog bodies that are
      mummified, do we sense a range concerning Beowulf's travels???
      Visby on Gotland must have been a proud city and trading location
      for thousands of years but scholarship with accurate & compelling
      footnotes often truncates us to time-frames as in centuries. What
      we can do is see the way a language can change. Chaucer's proper
      version of English is not a prose Christopher Marlowe, Ben Johnson
      or William Shakespeare could read fast and swiftly yet retain a wise comprehension. Our prose political contains Whig ideas still, circa
      our Revolution, if we be inside the USA. Could it be the prose on the
      KRS hints at things in Scandinavia contemporary to Edward III or
      Richard II and suggests the stone was carved right after the horrific
      plague that reminds us of the one Justinian and Theodora faced at
      least 800 years earlier? "Medieval Dead" the TV series I specifically
      was talking about up above covers the aeon between King Arthur at
      about A.D 500 up until Scott Wolter's Italian "Chris" and his aggregate
      sum of trendy voyages right before a Pope split Brazil in 2 on a map.
      If Beowulf in a Viking manner could have traveled between Dublin in
      Ireland to the Siberian peninsula just above Japan, so we can link all
      Eastern dragons to narwhal horns and Celtic burial mounds, yet did
      not reach the Great Sea Augustus Caesar controlled in a B.C date, i
      say a Jute can act like a much later Gute! Scott Wolter has picked up
      on a subtle nuance inside the KRS runes when seeing not a hoax but
      a lettering brought about by an education! Loosely put, we see a range...

  49. Thanks for replying so fast, Scott! I stumbled on the U.K website for Medieval Dead after YouTube took down the prayer chapel episode. To my delight, I looked at it again at a higher resolution on HULU. There are several episodes of note, given that one of the people on the program is an archaeologist at the University of York. The two seasons of Medieval Dead are trying to bring into focus a very misunderstood time. Earlier when reading about the KRS I did not have a clear timeline in my head. Today, my looking at footage of the old armor found in Visby had me mentally wondering if William the Conqueror's vassals & groundlings had such a range and mix of armor as had the valiant citizen's militia fighters who fell just outside the city gate of old Visby. Plate armor is very late 1400s as if jousting rules all and en-capsules all military tactics, it reached an apex at about the time Henry VIII learned how to joust. Gunpowder demanded a greater mobility again when power and accuracy improved. ---- Visby, Masterby, Towton, Agincourt and even Tadcaster had battles or clashes. Visby and Masterby have stone crosses that link the heroic efforts to repel a greedy foreign invader. The old woman in the humble grave at Tadcaster was a plague victim, but the town is only 15 miles from Towton, evidently she did not die violently. The graves on unconsecrated ground are very orderly, tidy and appropriate in light of the mass pits plague victims in cities were hurled into. I began watching initially and was delighted as i saw a riddling out as to what happened to the Towton memorial chapel that was constructed between 1483 and 1485. I was to pleasantly learn some churches and chapels survived Henry VIII & Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell by becoming secular and built up around to the degree they became swallowed by an eventually larger building. Not everything was torn down. The quiet of the French fields where Agincourt is thought to have transpired has to be contrasted with the pace of our modern world. This series again is causing me to rethink how things enter into our history books. Like Bosworth Field, maybe the actual place the pivotal clash happened at could be two miles from where we were told it happened at. Onto Visby again... I go!!! Loosely put... England, Wales and Scotland are a big island all told, and 1066 has this in common with 1485 in that in both instances the more legitimate monarch lost the throne. Mentally I am thinking over the mercenary army that the greedy King of Denmark hired, and what those two crosses say about heroic defenses made. Once again I've stumbled across a show that has me looking anew at what we assume history to be!!! The King of Denmark in his Game of Thrones mind's eye saw Gotland and all trade networks as a "golden goose" to be plucked and did so. Assuming some of the chain armor to be ancient, and dating back centuries, if the more modern plate armor was easy to pluck off the dead but the ancient and possibly rusty family armor was not so desirable, i'm sensing the end of an era in 1361. The central tragedy at the core of this is coming into being as Gotland again began to prosper after the plague had swept through, tis tragic that a war soon followed with its own mass graves.
    Money is a motivator, indeed a desire for plunder. Power elites can seem to have similar motivations and often social memes have their themes. There has to have been an educated exodus out of Gotland after the Danish king's vassals swept up from the coastal south into poor Visby. Trade connections again were cut if Gotland was indeed a hub of commerce. Tis a nice interview, Scott... the one you recently did on Minnesota radio. I am again agreeing with you!

  50. I began this out of curiosity, almost like a Grail Quest, only to go past the White verses Red Rose Ricardian dialectic and into 1066. Those designs. Yes. What battle wounds on old bones imply. Admittedly I can have opinions as can we all. Not that Richard III was a New Deal Liberal before his tyme, actually... or that he invented the Labour Party well long before Lloyd George defined and refined it, but he may have been a reformer of sorts. Hence the re-opening of a historic great debate that Horace Walpole once had sublime thoughts about. Game of Thrones as a fantasy/fiction series tries to capture the intensity of the 1400s. Thanks to Medieval Dead, again I see why I can make the mistake of thinking the 1300s were very much like the 1400s. I found myself thinking over the older armor designs. Then it hit me invaders invade in order to plunder, often... and sometimes the obvious is in plain sight but well hid... the poor citizen's militia at Visby in 1361 must have been wearing types of armor William the Conqueror would have been familiar with... and then fashion changed everything until tactics finally understood gunpowder. At Agincourt, after the wind took the English arrows that much further, the English nobles were not in a jousting mood... an age ends. Plate armor can be readily plundered. At Towton the Populares won, then a quarter century later the more venal Optimates had their own day in the Sun. This historic division is with us, still... and when pointing out a few of the less obvious factions, you are accused of being heavily fictional when said to be inventing something up that is older than Robert Boyle's invisible college. To see Gotland as having divisions internal well long before an invasion! In English History, William of Orange was said to have ACTUALLY been invited by one of the Game of Thrones factions! Enjoy! Fiction does sometimes follow fact. The lines are often clear & clean!

    1. A recent book has made it to the Book Review in the New York Times’ June 7, 2015 weekend edition. Tucked way at page 26 is a review of a new book written by Michael Pye called “The Edge of the World: A Cultural History of the North Sea and the Transformation of Europe”. The trade routes are gone into!

  51. Hey Scott,

    Have you ever met a geologist named Paul Weiblen? Because recently while looking up information on rune stones I ran across a report by him on the Kensington Rune Stone he made back in 2001. It sounded really interesting and I wanted to get your take on it since you have a history with it. I can't wait for the new show! Keep up the good work!!!


    1. Hi Rich,
      Weiblen did have some very interesting things to say, like in his June 2008 letter to the Runestone Museum:

      "I am of the same mind as Winchell who concluded that study of physical aspects of the KRS will probably not contribute much to establishing the authenticity of the runes. That is not to say that the ever-increasing sophistication of modern analytical techniques might someday
      definitively establish the time and manner in which the runes were carved, but from my experience and perspective that time is not now and may never be reached. This hinges on the fact that the rock weathering process involves such a wide variety of parameters that experimental data on rates of weathering from experiments cannot readily constrain
      interpretations of natural weathering processes."

      Your thoughts Scott?

    2. Winchell concluded that KRS was authentic based upon the geological aspects of the weathering he investigated; that is a documented fact. Winchell's comments are being taken out of context by Wieblen and being intentionally presented that way by our anonymous poster. Winchell was referring to his lack of expertise in old runes and how that aspect of the KRS would have to decided by runic scholars.

      With regard to Wieblen's comments, I completely disagree with Paul. He has not studied the relative-age tombstone weathering work I performed so his opinion doesn't mean much. If he had looked at my geological work in any detail I know he would have contacted me with questions or comments that I would have responded to in writing.

      He's right there is a wide variety of the parameters involved in understanding weathering rates. However, I documented the relevant parameters very carefully and reached a conservative estimate about the timing of that weathering that was enough time to draw a definitive conclusion about the authenticity of the KRS that has proven to be correct.

    3. I've read Winchell's report to the Museum Committee of the Minnesota Historical Society, and didn't just pick and choose from his findings as you have to support your position. Winchell may have believed the KRS could be authentic, and much of what swayed him was his personal interaction with the finder; which of course is highly subjective. However, Winchell did conclude that for absolute verification of the authenticity of the KRS, the linguists would have the final say.

      And they did. It's a hoax.

    4. Mr. Anonymous is wrong yet again. Winchell did not "believe it could be authentic", he, in fact, said the following, "The said stone is not a modern forgery, and must be accepted as a genuine record of an exploration into Minnesota, at the date stated in the inscription." Will you man-up now and admit you were wrong and deliberately twisted his words to suit your bias point of view? Of course you won't.

      The early linguists did indeed conclude it was a hoax, but as we now know for all the wrong reasons. They said the various runes and other linguistic features didn't exist in the 14th Century, yet it has recently been shown these features all did indeed exist. Now, we want to see you admit they were wrong then, but the current scholars in Sweden don't have the integrity to admit it. I won't hold my breath on that one either.

      Now let's turn the tables a little OK smart guy? I want you to present to all of us reading this blog one piece of factual evidence that is consistent with the KRS being a hoax. Not unsupported opinion, not rumor, or hearsay, just give us one fact. I know the facts in this arena a lot better than you so don't go making anything up alright?

      Good luck!

    5. As you wish:

      "Resolutions Adopted by the Museum Committee.
      The following resolutions, which were adopted unanimously
      by this Committee April 21, 1910, are not expected to terminate
      the investigation, but to show the present belief of its members.

      Resolved, That this Committee renders a favorable opinion of
      the authenticity of the Kensington rune stone, provided, that
      the references to Scandinavian literature given in this Com-
      mittee's written report and accompanying papers be verified
      by a competent specialist in the Scandinavian languages, to be
      selected by this Committee, and that he approve the conclusions
      of this report.

      Resolved, that this action of the Committee be reported to the
      next meeting of the Executive Council, and that Mr. Holand be
      so informed.

      E. C. Mitchell, Chairman.

      F. J. SCHAEFER,

      0. D. Wheeler,

      N. H. WiNCHELL,

      Warren Upham, Secretary. "

      Now what were you quoting? Was that from 1908? As for your remaining challenges, see the Larsson Papers... and try to comeback without using the words "Masonic" or "conspiracy".

    6. Congratulations anonymous; now your posting material that is actually factual and supports the authenticity of the KRS. The Museum Committee of the Minnesota Historical Society did the responsible thing by deferring to the Scandinavian scholars with regard to aspects of the inscription. Unfortunately, they had no way of knowing how arrogant, rude, and unscientific they would be. It should be no surprise though since the humanities disciplines of runology, history, linguistics, anthropology and archaeology do not formally train their students in hard science and it shows. In any case, the only mistake the Museum Committee made was not siding completely with Winchell based on the hard geological science he performed which conclusively proved the KRS's authenticity. I'm proud of you for bringing this up.

      The quote I cited was at the end of a beautiful letter written by Winchell to the Museum Committee after completing his geological studies on the KRS on December 9, 1909. I don't believe a smart guy like you doesn't know where to find my picture and transcription of this letter, but I'll help the readers anyway; page 413 in my book, "The Kensington Rune Stone: Compelling New Evidence." Go back and read that letter and then tell us again that Paul Wieblen thought Winchell believed it "might be genuine." That's a crock and you know it.

      And don't you dare try to frame the discussion by trying to tell me I can't use certain words. You know very well the Larsson Papers are clearly Masonic as Edward Larsson was obviously a Scandinavian Freemason. Freemasonry and Secret Societies have always existed in the world as it is a known fact. It is also a fact that these societies, and the Cistercians and Knights Templar, operated in strict secrecy using signs, symbols, tokens, and coded alphabets that included runes. Henrik Williams and his fellow scholars know nothing about this world of study and that is precisely why they struggle with the Larsson Papers and the rune stones of North America. Until they admit that and ask for help they will continue to founder and mislead people like you with erroneous unsupported opinions.

      You have put too much faith in academia my friend and they have let you down. You would be wise to swallow your arrogance and pride in certain elements of academic and open your mind. These centuries-long secret forms of communication are not a conspiracy, they are documented fact and this is the way these people did, and still do, business.

      And that's really what the KRS is all about; the business of claiming land.

      What else have you got?

    7. How can I respond to your ad hominem attack on the Scandinavian scholars? Likewise, your allegations of some vague Masonic conspiracy with no aim in sight nor tangible timeline relating to what you allege is being conspired to do. As set forth above, you attack and deny, with no substance, only fallacy. This may play well to your uneducated fandom, but no one with any real formal education is going to follow you down this rather silly path.

    8. Mr. Anonymous,

      I think you just did respond and quite appropriately I would say. Since you and the scholars you have put all your faith in don't have a response to what is documented fact the standard response is outrage and claims of a conspiracy.

      Once again, you've resorted to the tactic of framing the argument by claiming I am attacking the Scandinavian scholars when I am simply holding them accountable for the mistakes they continue to make in this particular case. I have stated the reasons and cited numerous examples in my books where their hubris and arrogance has repeatedly led them astray.

      You're now exhibiting the same attitude and when presented with something you can neither deal with or criticize intelligently, you lash out with the exact behavior you accuse me of.

      How disappointing when you were doing so well. It would be wonderful if you could to take a step back, park the attitude, and consider the subject matter I've presented seriously. That way you might actually learn something and we could make progress.

      All kidding aside, do you and the Scandinavian scholars think you are capable of doing that? So far, they have not been able to. Perhaps there is hope for you?

    9. It's rather ironic that you would fault the Scandinavian scholars for not accepting your science, yet you will not accept their considerable expertise, as compared to your own amateur status, in regard to the applicable linguistics. But as to your science, geologist Daryl Krupa took the time some years ago to respond to online questions regarding your geological work. There's too much for me to post on your Blog (I tried), but here's a link where your science is questioned:!topic/sci.archaeology/cH5tXUIWTkA%5B1-25%5D

      Do you recall that online discussion? Was anyone responding in that discussion on your behalf?


    10. Anonymous,

      The opinion of linguists and runologist about my geological work is irrelevant. The Scandinavian scientific investigation team did perform the work the promised nor did they ever submit the report they were obligated to do for leaving the KRS in Sweden for 4 months. The reason is obvious. They were unable to refute my findings and instead of admit it, they simply ignored their obligations. There's no other way to spin it hard as I'm sure you'll try.

      Daryl Krupa has never seen the Kensington Rune Stone in person so his skeptical comments have little merit and certainly haven't disproven any of my work. That particular blog site had a very small group of people who were die-hards against the KRS. Let me give you one example of a red herring the debunkers tried to trump. The question of the what the chemical makeup of the biotite was is completely irrelevant since the mechanisms of liftoff of biotite and other micas from the surface was mechanical (freeze-thaw and wetting and drying), not chemical.

      I'm still waiting for you to produce factual evidence to support your belief the KRS is a hoax. Trotting out the unsupported OPINIONS of debunkers on blog sites from the past is not a very scientific approach wouldn't you agree?

    11. There's no "Smithsonian Institution" in the U.S. yet you are an expert on medieval Swedish because someone else translated stuff for you?

      "Freemasonry and Secret Societies have always existed in the world as it is a known fact." As a Mason I can tell you that that is not even an unknown fact.

    12. Bro Lars,

      This commentary is confusing to say the least. First, there most certainly is a Smithsonian Institution in the United States. Their multiple museums line the National Mall in Washington, D.C. Surely you must have misworded your comment? Second, I never claimed to be an expert in Old Swedish, only that I know enough to be dangerous. Here again you are mistaken. Third, if you are indeed a brother Freemason, then surely you know that both Freemasonry and Secret societies have existed, metaphorically speaking of course, forever. If you’ve experienced the 31st degree of Scottish Rite you’ll understand my comment. If not, I strongly urge you to do so.

      In any case, I stand by everything I’ve actually said.

  52. Rich,

    I was with Paul when he performed the single microprobe traverse across the top surface of the core sample I took from the back of the KRS. The traverse was across the glacially weathered end of the core. Many skeptics have tried to make an issue of the fact that Paul didn't document any biotite along his traverse. This would be expected since any biotite that may have been on the surface would have weathered away over the 10-12,000 years after the glacier deposited the original slab of graywacke.

  53. Hi Scott,

    Are you aware of a man named Tom McDonald?

    -- Carl.

  54. Carl,

    The name kind of rings a bell, but not specifically at the moment.

  55. Scott,

    Can you clarify if the following email posted in the link, is in fact one that he claims you sent to him:

    -- Carl

  56. Carl,

    Now I remember Tom McDonald, and yes that email looks to be the one I wrote at the time. I now know where you are going with your seemingly innocent postings Carl/Rich/or whoever you are. Of the people on that list, Paul Wieblen and G.B. Morey did not submit written reviews of my geological work. They promised to, but we instead discussed the findings personally at the Minnesota Geological Survey and Paul was the only one who didn't completely agree. His objections were philosophical with regard to methodology and he offered nothing specific to refute or contradict my work.

    G.B. Morey was very intrigued and thought we had done proper work. He was also in the midst of writing a biography of Newton Winchell as he was impressed with his geological work on the KRS and everything else about the man.

    All of the others who reviewed my geological work did so in writing.

    1. Where can someone find their written reviews?

  57. Carl,

    These written reviews have always been and will continue to be made available to qualified geologists who are seriously interested in looking into the geological research I performed on the KRS beyond what is already published in my written reports and in "Compelling New Evidence." Regardless, the reviews wouldn't be of value to anyone who wasn't a geologist.

    The posts on this blog have also convinced me there are too many trolls out there looking for anything they can get a hold of to try and further muddy the already murky waters of this discussion. Until the debunkers are willing to acknowledge and accept hard scientific facts, and conduct a serious KRS discussion with objectivity, there is no reason to take them seriously.

  58. I recently had some information come my way that intrigued me. Knowing you are a geologist I thought I would ask you about it. I was told that when Mt. St. Helen's erupted that tree's were petrified within a two week period. (?) Also that science can now petrify pine cones in a small period of time with chemicals. (?) The same chemicals as found in volcanic ash. This intrigued me as they were saying that cataclysmic events can cause things to become fossilized or petrified in a short amount of time. Combine this with other scientific speculation of historical events (theory or fact) that cataclysmic events (floods, meteors, past global annihilation) could cause Fossilization and Petrification to occur is shorter time periods that at first thought. My question is: carbon dating can not take place on rock or mineral, including fossils or petrified objects ? Correct?
    The only way to judge the age of these things are from materials that are gathered from around the object that they can carbon date? Which could be at its time of being formed or from another time, from someone who was around them that dropped something, which could have been hundreds or thousands of year before or after them?
    I think what I am trying to ask is: how can an objects of rock, fossils or minerals be stated as anything other theory as to age of these type of things.
    I live in Kemmerer Wyoming which is were Fossil Butte National Monuments is and where fossils are dug every summer. And most of these people claim that these rocks are 500 or 50 million years old. And yet modern science now proves a thing can be petrified or fossilized in a two week period when a cataclysmic event happens. (Not to mention we also have HUGE coal deposits, which is another discussion in and of itself)
    How can we be sure dinosaurs are as old as they say? How can we be sure that fossils are as old as they claim? How can we be sure that things are not hundreds of thousands of years younger and that they were made because of a global cataclysmic event? The ancient Vedic literature of India, it talks about a global cataclysmic event.
    BTW....I love your show. Science is nothing if people can not constantly question and grow.

  59. Hello Alan and Scott,

    I've found a few more examples of the "C-Window" present at Rosslyn Chapel, and Castle Acre. All have Templar connections. While looking through search images, I kept coming across windows with what I call a "stumped figure 8" and they all face West. What immediately came to mind was, keeping track of two celestial bodies, which pass across the windows at night, and upon occasion...Line Up! I had two main suspects. As it would happen, I was reading a general interest piece about celestial events in June. The article stated, "on June 30th, Jupiter and Venus will align". I think it said ".3, or .03 degrees apart". Jupiter and Venus were my two suspects. I would love to know...Do these windows indeed align with this event??? I've come across the work done by Ball State University's IDIA Lab. They've done 3-D reconstructions of various sites, showing their celestial alignments. Interestingly, one of the reconstructions from one of Hadrian's works, illuminating the Goddess on the Summer Solstice, appears to be the same symbolism on a local Catholic School. The Goddess being named Mary, is the only difference.

    Best regards,

    Anthony Warren

  60. Hello Alan and Scott,

    I've come into possession of an interesting work of art. Amazingly, I got it for $8. It appears to be men playing billiards/pool, however, the man attempting a shot, is clearly making the "M" sign. The game appears to have been interrupted by stern looking men of the Book. One of the balls seems to portray an alignment, in a triangle made by another man's arm. I will email some pictures of the art to Scott, and hope he'll pass them on to Alan, as I'm not sure if his "City of the Goddess" account is active, or not. In another email, I'll send pictures of Egyptian "Hooked X's" I've come across. In some cases, the "Hook" is on the opposite side. If you remember the last one I sent, the "beard" hooks the crossed Crook and Flail.

    Best regards,

    Anthony Warren

    BTW- Alan and I need to have a discussion regarding Orion. I've come across some really interesting information. I'm pretty sure the "giants of the bible" were constellations, and the giant stowing away on the Ark has to be what we call Orion.

  61. Have you ever seen the seal of the Moravian Church?
    Vicit Agnus noster, eum sequamur.

    1. "Our Lamb has conquered, let us follow him."

      That's very interesting isn't it? Very Cistercian-like.